Its one a.m. here on the Virginia/North Carolina border and I almost feel like I am back taking a law school essay exam from the details in your post, but I will give it a go.

(I also don't want to sound ungrateful for what the ACC did for Notre Dame, because that is definitely not the case)

This may be a bit stream of consciousness, and involves how things "feel" to a fan, but I will try to respond to your topics/questions.

No, playing in a conference championship game and winning a conference football championship really does not move the needle all that much for ND football fans.

We are not built that way. It has always been "national championship or bust" for ND from, hell, 1887-2020.

Most often bust, admittedly, but that is the mindset. Conference championships were always viewed as not important or consolation prizes by many ND fans.

The thought in 2020 was "Well, if we are here, we might as well win the thing" but it was more of a makeshift goal for that year because of Covid.

Even when ND basketball won the ACC Tournament in 2015 (I believe), lots of ND fans thought it was nice achievement but the Elite 8 was way better.

Regarding 2020, some of the factors involved had nothing to do with the ACC.

A couple did, in a way.

Covid cost ND fans two games in great venues:

1) Against Navy in Aviva Stadium in Dublin, Ireland, and

2) An ND "home game" (for real) against Wisconsin in Lambeau Field.

The loss of those two games/venues was extremely disappointing for ND fans.

There was also the loss of the Southern Cal game. A big negative whether the Trojans are down or not.

There was the loss of the Navy game that might have been re-scheduled for Annapolis (the first time ND would ever have played there in history) but ACC Covid protocols killed that.

(That was a negative side effect for ND fans as far as ACC membership last year was concerned).

So, the loss of those games and venues took away some of the excitement and anticipation for the 2020 season for ND fans.

What was ND's "reward" for "winning" the ACC regular season, going undefeated and beating the No. 1 team in the country ?

It got to play Clemson a second time. Some reward. "Beat them twice in a month, guys". Cool.

That "perk" for being in a conference didn't seem that "perky".

ND had an undefeated regular season in 2018 as an independent and.made the playoffs.

ND had an undefeated regular season in 2020 as an ACC member and.. had to play another game and risk not being in the playoffs.

That did not seem like "better access to the CFP" that you and others cite as a benefit to ND if it joins a football conference.

Playing ten teams from the same conference seemed too "regionalized" or "restrictive" to ND fans.

It seemed like the same type of team often. Same style of play. Same conference. Same region of the country.

Yes, many of those games were kind of snoozers, too.

Covid killed the novelty of playing Georgia Tech and Wake Forest in pro football stadiums. That lessened the attraction of those games considerably. (fans could not attend anyway).

ND fans don't get excited about playing Boston College. Its the idea of playing in Boston in front of East Coast fans and alumni.

Or New York. Or Pittsburgh. Or Los Angeles.

You asked what ND fans want, or value or what moves their needle.

ND fans like to "barnstorm' around the country, play some away games in NFL stadiums, play Navy in some place like Philly, San Diego or Dublin, play a "home game" in a place like San Antonio, play teams from different conferences and different parts of the country.

Schedule Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas A&M and teams like that

(All on ND's very recent or future schedules)

Variety of that type is part of what being an ND football fan is all about. It is who we are.

That is how Notre Dame became "Notre Dame" in the first place.

(Train trips in the 1920's to New York City to play Army in old Yankee Stadium or to Los Angeles to play USC at the Coliseum)

That is ND's identity, at least to ND fans.

ND fans live there, in those places, all over the country.

They are not limited to Indiana or the Midwest. Hell, most of them are from far from there.

I have attached a map of ND fans' location below.

There is also this one from 538.com:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/college-football-ticket-sales/

Compare ND's fan map with that of a few other top schools and look at the differences.

https://imgur.com/a/rKxo7


They want to attend games near where they live.

Being in a conference limits ND's ability to do this.

(If we wanted to follow State U and a regional conference schedule, we wouldn't be ND fans.)

Yes, and play traditional opponents like Navy and Southern Cal.

Finally, to go undefeated and make the playoffs.

If not, try again next year. Check the schedule to see where/who ND is playing next season.

Maybe it would have felt less restrictive/regionalized if there had been only 7 or 8 conference games instead of 10.

I enjoyed the fact that ND was able to play 10 games. I tuned into Packer & Durham every morning and became a fan.

I checked out the ACC standings and statistics. It was a fun season.

I don't want to make it sound like it was a bad experience.

But, I felt a bit "liberated" when ND announced it was going back to an independent schedule.


I think that 2018 and 2020 showed that ND can thrive either as a football independent or as a conference member.

There is no real question about that.

(ND haters/critics used to argue that ND was "scared" of a conference schedule or could not compete at a high level in one. 2020 put paid to that stance)

The question for ND is which do they prefer?

The early returns seem to be as an independent.





















[Post edited by TerryD at 04/18/2021 10:50AM]