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  1. #71

    Join Date
    August 27, 2002
    Posts
    4,272

    Research is more than just STEM

    Quote Originally Posted by Telionis View Post
    What??? Largest? Hardly. Maryland pulled in just $10m more than us last year, and made about half of what Duke did.

    2011 STEM Research in millions:

    1. Duke - 805
    2. UNC - 646
    3. GT - 562
    4. UMD - 409
    5. VT - 397
    6. NCSU - 381
    7. UVA - 262
    8. WFU 202
    9. FSU - 195
    10. Clemson - 186
    11. Miami - 172
    12. BC - 41

    Pittsburgh - 623
    Syracuse 41

    Pitt will be third, right behind UNC and ahead of Georgia Tech, once they transition. Academically I'd say Pitt is more than a replacement for Maryland. Though losing Maryland would still hurt.
    _______________

    I am very disappointed by the recent trend of considering the University rankings gospel. The US News figures are probably the best and they're still TERRIBLE. These are the same idiots that allowed Clemson to game their system (outright cheating from 120 down to 65 or so) and put them ahead of VT in the rankings (a laughable idea, Clemson is half the school we are), despite also ranking Clemson far behind VT in nearly every individual department (see below). So, VT has 5x as many National Academy members, far more citations, more than double the STEM research expenditures, a larger endowment (not sure why that is so relevant), and is considerably superior in almost every single department ranking... and yet, "overall" they're ahead of us??? Bull****... How could anyone possibly consider US News reputable after reading such nonsense?

    Breakdown of rankings: http://i.imgur.com/7mUbD.jpg

    Back to the point at hand - forget US News and the ranking systems - Maryland has never been considered an elite academic school, ever. They are nothing like Duke, UNC or UVA in terms of prestige. They are a great state school, but not consequentially better than VT IMHO. In fact, I'd wager we beat them in most of the things we do well (obviously not English or History).

    You guys need to stop reading the US News rankings and stop selling VT short.
    For one thing, medicine isn't included in STEM. Nor is agriculture.

    If you want a good overview of research spending, go here:

    http://www.ns.umich.edu/Releases/201...arch-tab15.xls

    Note I'm NOT selling VT short -- but Maryland is an AAU member, which means its an elite research institution -- period. You're right about the idiocy of relying on USNWR rankings. They're aimed at making undergrads and their parents feel good about their choices and selling magazines. University administrators look at research grants and AAU status when deciding pecking order.

  2. #72

    Join Date
    January 05, 2001
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    15,119
    Quote Originally Posted by 48zip View Post
    I couldn't tagree less. I feel MUCH MORE like NCSU than UMD and it isn't close. I no zero UM grads, and dozens of NCSU grads. (I've been a PE for 25 yrs.)
    I guess it depends on your sampling, but I will say that I'm a patent attorney by trade, and over the last 20 years I've worked with hundreds of engineers. The nature of my job is that I work with an extremely large number of engineers spread out over scores of employers. I recently landed a corporate job where one of the senior project managers - an NC State grad - has framed pictures of John Deere tractors in his office.

    I read that something like 40% of Tech students come from Northern Virginia - that area is nothing like any area of North Carolina. Another big chunk comes from Tidewater - a military port area that is a mix of many types of kids. Sure Va Beach has its rednecks but they don't make up the bulk of VT's freshman classes.

    When you draw such a huge part of your student body from Nova (and Tidewater), you're not going to create a southern culture. Not that I have anything against NCSU. My good buddy hooks me up with tix for at least one State (or "Stayte" as they say in NC) game every year and the tailgating is topnotch.

  3. #73
    Senior Member NCHokie83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 02, 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    1,857
    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    Do you want to wait until FSU leaves before VT makes a move? I'd bet FSU is already furiously working on an exit strategy: should VT wait until it's too late before making any calls?
    What makes you think we haven't already made sure we have that contingency plan in place? I all but guarantee you the discussions have happened, and we do know EXACTLY where we stand and what we're going to do if this all happens, and I'm sure those discussions have happened with the SEC.

    Right now, we're happy being in the ACC. Its a great fit for us. And the SEC right now is very content with where they are. As of now, they have no intentions of changing anything. But, if you see FSU and Clemson bolt to the B12, that creates a big change in the makeup of football. Suddenly, the SEC is battling the B12 in states like Florida and S. Carolina for viewership, where in the past they were only battling the 'lowly' ACC, and they're going to want to make up that ground lost somewhere else to get back to 'evening' the field in their eyes, which is when they'll turn to Virginia and NC and go after VT and NCSU to complete their footprint.

    I'm sure the plan is already set. Of course they're not going to admit it publicly, because that would accomplish nothing but create distrust among all other schools in the conference, but you just know we're not sitting around twiddling our thumbs while the threat of having our biggest revenue maker being cut off at the knees with a conference imploding being all around us. Remember in 2003, we were firmly behind being in the Big East for the long haul.... right up until the minute we were invited into the ACC. That came out of nowhere, because all the discussions were behind the scenes. Just because none of our admin have been preaching the greatness of how awesome it would be to be in the SEC does not mean we aren't actively looking into it.

  4. #74

    Join Date
    November 28, 2009
    Posts
    319
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfesser View Post
    For one thing, medicine isn't included in STEM. Nor is agriculture.

    If you want a good overview of research spending, go here:

    http://www.ns.umich.edu/Releases/201...arch-tab15.xls

    Note I'm NOT selling VT short -- but Maryland is an AAU member, which means its an elite research institution -- period. You're right about the idiocy of relying on USNWR rankings. They're aimed at making undergrads and their parents feel good about their choices and selling magazines. University administrators look at research grants and AAU status when deciding pecking order.
    You posted the same rankings that I did, only for FY2010. Maryland's income was down in 2011. Either way, they are not that far ahead of us. The figures do include medicine and health sciences, 150m of VT's income is biomedical. Go straight to the source: http://mup.asu.edu/research.html

    AAU is an old boys club. There are many AAU institutions which are far inferior to VT in terms of research. They are also slow as hell to act, it took GT until 2010 to get accepted. I'm sure VT will be accepted eventually, it'll just take forever (2025?).

  5. #75

    Join Date
    October 08, 1999
    Posts
    1,652

    You guys are cracking me up

    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    I guess it depends on your sampling, but I will say that I'm a patent attorney by trade, and over the last 20 years I've worked with hundreds of engineers. The nature of my job is that I work with an extremely large number of engineers spread out over scores of employers. I recently landed a corporate job where one of the senior project managers - an NC State grad - has framed pictures of John Deere tractors in his office.

    I read that something like 40% of Tech students come from Northern Virginia - that area is nothing like any area of North Carolina. Another big chunk comes from Tidewater - a military port area that is a mix of many types of kids. Sure Va Beach has its rednecks but they don't make up the bulk of VT's freshman classes.

    When you draw such a huge part of your student body from Nova (and Tidewater), you're not going to create a southern culture. Not that I have anything against NCSU. My good buddy hooks me up with tix for at least one State (or "Stayte" as they say in NC) game every year and the tailgating is topnotch.
    So,your argument points must be for full blown humor...I can blow holes in most of tem, and most of tem aren't even relevant to the issue...my company's PhD CEO (an engineer! Btw) hails from Maine? Our HQ is in Va. His office shelves have about ten John Deere tractor models. My wife's cousin (from Maryland) and retired from 35 yrs with moline, ILLINOIS based John Deere and living last 20 years in Columbus, Ohio has 2 buildings on his land of rebuilt antique JD tractors and another of toy antique JD. his 2 fav teams are Maryland and Ohio state...I could go on but I'm laughing too hard at your reasoning.

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