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  1. #31

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    Perception is reality

  2. #32
    Hubman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    Obviously, others have piled in here, but I'll add my two cents:

    1.) Cvillehoops13 and GCHokie34 are VALUABLE members of this message board community. Much more valuable than you are. Sorry, but that's it in a nutshell, and it's nothing personal to you -- those guys are more valuable posters than 98% or 99% of the posters on this board, including me. Lay off of them, because if your small-minded personal attacks run them off, guess whose name will be mud around here? Not them.

    2.) Really, you can't express yourself any better than that, at your age (Even if you were born in 1963, instead of that being your graduation year, I would expect better of a 48-49 year old.) You've done an excellent job in the past of expressing your thoughts in language that isn't so divisive. When you slip up and post like that, it only makes you look bad.

    3.) Lastly, Cvillehoops13 and GCHokie34 are often expressing how the coaching community and the college basketball world at large view the "Virginia Tech job". When they speak in those terms, their observations are dead on, because they have conversed many, many times with people in the industry, or have overheard conversations. (From an April 28th tweet by Rev Zeke (@KipTJam): Just heard ACC head coach saying to Roy Williams,discussing VT situation, "man that's a hard job."). The perception that the VT job is a "hard job" is TRUTH. Does that mean it can't be done? Hell no, people do hard jobs all the time. So, I can't speak for the entirety of every post they have ever put on the board, but when they speak of how the industry perceives the VT job ... they're speaking the truth.
    I don't pretend to have a lot of insider information, especially in the coaching world of college basketball. I have been an athlete my entire life, understand the game (in this case basketball), but come at all of this from the fan standpoint. With that said, I don't pretend to know more than any guru on this board, especially those in the college hoops business.

    I rarely have anything but interest and appreciation when the gurus post on this board. It is usually information that none of us know, or at least had not thought about. I can appreciate that because it often leads to good discussion and valuable insight.

    I will openly say that my only gripe ever was towards CVille and his constant posts about how low the ceiling is for VT basketball, and how dreadful of a coaching job we have in Blacksburg. Look, we know CVille is wise when it comes to college basketball. We know he talks to people about hoops that many of us don't even know, or could only dream to speak to. We get it. I get it. However, on a fan site (which I am one), the last thing we need to be fed is a constant dialogue of how bad our job is, how it is nearly impossible to recruit here, and that we are lucky to not be in the basement of the ACC.

    In twenty years, maybe VT basketball will be nothing more than a door mat for ACC foes. Maybe Blacksburg is a black hole for coaching, and CVille will be proven to be 100 percent correct. However, I would like to spend my next twenty years figuring out a way to make VT basketball better, and more appealing to the masses. In the grand scheme of things, VT basketball is the new kid on the block when it comes to big time basketball. When you are the new kid, you have the potential to turn into something significant. In my mind, that is where we should focussing our energy.......on how to turn VT basketball into something significant.

    Whether James Johnson can do it or not, is yet to be determined; however, he is, at the very least, envisioning the correct things. I would not be surprised if he has a full-fledged strategic plan for recruiting and building the VT program. Some may call that snake oil because they are of the perception that VT basketball will never be anything but a second rate program at a football school; however, I would call that a vision that can help take a young program, in a cow-town, to greater heights (and we have discussed these heights ad naseum, so you know what the expectations are).

    I am sure I will be blasted for posting the above thoughts, but CVille and I will never see eye-to-eye on the potential of the program. Honestly, I hope few Hokie fans sees eye-to-eye with CVille on the potential of the program because donors would stop and seats would become vacant. Again, it's not that CVille is wrong or disingenuous with anything he is saying, I am just going to take the fan stance when it comes to this debate, while he takes the front office stance.

    P.S. I also know that CVille's posts are more valuable on this site than mine, but I just wanted to throw that out there (and that post was not in defense of anyone that had previously posted on the thread)
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    I don't pretend to have a lot of insider information, especially in the coaching world of college basketball. I have been an athlete my entire life, understand the game (in this case basketball), but come at all of this from the fan standpoint. With that said, I don't pretend to know more than any guru on this board, especially those in the college hoops business.

    I rarely have anything but interest and appreciation when the gurus post on this board. It is usually information that none of us know, or at least had not thought about. I can appreciate that because it often leads to good discussion and valuable insight.

    I will openly say that my only gripe ever was towards CVille and his constant posts about how low the ceiling is for VT basketball, and how dreadful of a coaching job we have in Blacksburg. Look, we know CVille is wise when it comes to college basketball. We know he talks to people about hoops that many of us don't even know, or could only dream to speak to. We get it. I get it. However, on a fan site (which I am one), the last thing we need to be fed is a constant dialogue of how bad our job is, how it is nearly impossible to recruit here, and that we are lucky to not be in the basement of the ACC.

    In twenty years, maybe VT basketball will be nothing more than a door mat for ACC foes. Maybe Blacksburg is a black hole for coaching, and CVille will be proven to be 100 percent correct. However, I would like to spend my next twenty years figuring out a way to make VT basketball better, and more appealing to the masses. In the grand scheme of things, VT basketball is the new kid on the block when it comes to big time basketball. When you are the new kid, you have the potential to turn into something significant. In my mind, that is where we should focussing our energy.......on how to turn VT basketball into something significant.

    Whether James Johnson can do it or not, is yet to be determined; however, he is, at the very least, envisioning the correct things. I would not be surprised if he has a full-fledged strategic plan for recruiting and building the VT program. Some may call that snake oil because they are of the perception that VT basketball will never be anything but a second rate program at a football school; however, I would call that a vision that can help take a young program, in a cow-town, to greater heights (and we have discussed these heights ad naseum, so you know what the expectations are).

    I am sure I will be blasted for posting the above thoughts, but CVille and I will never see eye-to-eye on the potential of the program. Honestly, I hope few Hokie fans sees eye-to-eye with CVille on the potential of the program because donors would stop and seats would become vacant. Again, it's not that CVille is wrong or disingenuous with anything he is saying, I am just going to take the fan stance when it comes to this debate, while he takes the front office stance.

    P.S. I also know that CVille's posts are more valuable on this site than mine, but I just wanted to throw that out there (and that post was not in defense of anyone that had previously posted on the thread)
    That's a pretty nice mis-characterization of what C'ville has said. He NEVER said, or implied even, that VT has a low ceiling. Never.

    He has said two things: 1) the VT basketball coaching job is not a "plumb" job to most in the coaching profession, and 2) there are some major hurdles to basketball recruiting at VT.

    Now, what is it, in those two statements, that hasn't been proven to be 100% true? And, what's more, how are either of those two statements reflective of the "potential of the program?"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    That's a pretty nice mis-characterization of what C'ville has said. He NEVER said, or implied even, that VT has a low ceiling. Never.

    He has said two things: 1) the VT basketball coaching job is not a "plumb" job to most in the coaching profession, and 2) there are some major hurdles to basketball recruiting at VT.

    Now, what is it, in those two statements, that hasn't been proven to be 100% true? And, what's more, how are either of those two statements reflective of the "potential of the program?"
    Actually, I don't think I am mischaracterizing anything CVille has said. We just don't see eye-to-eye. For example, CVille did not agree that we should look for a new coach. He believed that Seth needed more years. I understood where he was coming from with that stance, but I did not agree. He also feels like the ceiling of this program, particularly with the athletic department the way it is, is not high. Again, I am not going to sit here and say he is wrong, but I am just going to respectfully disagree.

    We have had the discussion many times about perceptions, realities, etc. of the basketball program in Blacksburg. Sometimes CVille posts so much of the "reality" that it sounds like we will be lucky to keep fielding a team of basketball players in Blacksburg. As Will said, he isn't making these things up. It's what he hears and experiences with his own eyes. I do get that; however, there are also things VT can do to move forward and brighten the future of the program. To be fair to CVille, he has expressed some of these things as well........I just wish he would do more of that, and less posts about the morbid "realities" the program faces in Blacksburg :-)
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

  5. #35
    Guy LeDouche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Hoke View Post
    The notion that Blacksburg is a hard draw for recruits is a defeatest attitude, and I don't believe it either, never have.
    I agree with this statement. I find it amusing that there is a prevailing attitude that there is nothing to do in Blacksburg. When I was at school, there was always something going on and I was never bored. In fact, I learned quickly that there were too many distractions and I had to discipline myself to keep school first.

    I guess if everyone says, "Blacksburg is a boring rural town," then that becomes the reality even though most here know it is not true. It is up to the Hokie fan base to dispel that notion.
    Drink better than eat.....eat better than no drink.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    Obviously, others have piled in here, but I'll add my two cents:

    1.) Cvillehoops13 and GCHokie34 are VALUABLE members of this message board community. Much more valuable than you are. Sorry, but that's it in a nutshell, and it's nothing personal to you -- those guys are more valuable posters than 98% or 99% of the posters on this board, including me. Lay off of them, because if your small-minded personal attacks run them off, guess whose name will be mud around here? Not them.

    2.) Really, you can't express yourself any better than that, at your age (Even if you were born in 1963, instead of that being your graduation year, I would expect better of a 48-49 year old.) You've done an excellent job in the past of expressing your thoughts in language that isn't so divisive. When you slip up and post like that, it only makes you look bad.

    3.) Lastly, Cvillehoops13 and GCHokie34 are often expressing how the coaching community and the college basketball world at large view the "Virginia Tech job". When they speak in those terms, their observations are dead on, because they have conversed many, many times with people in the industry, or have overheard conversations. (From an April 28th tweet by Rev Zeke (@KipTJam): Just heard ACC head coach saying to Roy Williams,discussing VT situation, "man that's a hard job."). The perception that the VT job is a "hard job" is TRUTH. Does that mean it can't be done? Hell no, people do hard jobs all the time. So, I can't speak for the entirety of every post they have ever put on the board, but when they speak of how the industry perceives the VT job ... they're speaking the truth.
    Roy is right about VT being a "hard job". And I'm guessing many said the same thing about our football program in the late 80's. Few could have ever accomplished what CFB has done; my hope is that one day we'll be saying the same thing about JJ.

    MH

  7. #37
    Gadfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    That's a pretty nice mis-characterization of what C'ville has said. He NEVER said, or implied even, that VT has a low ceiling. Never.

    He has said two things: 1) the VT basketball coaching job is not a "plumb" job to most in the coaching profession, and 2) there are some major hurdles to basketball recruiting at VT.

    Now, what is it, in those two statements, that hasn't been proven to be 100% true? And, what's more, how are either of those two statements reflective of the "potential of the program?"
    VT may not be a "plumb" job, but our trajectory has been more horizontal than vertical.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Actually, I don't think I am mischaracterizing anything CVille has said. We just don't see eye-to-eye. For example, CVille did not agree that we should look for a new coach. He believed that Seth needed more years. I understood where he was coming from with that stance, but I did not agree. He also feels like the ceiling of this program, particularly with the athletic department the way it is, is not high. Again, I am not going to sit here and say he is wrong, but I am just going to respectfully disagree.

    We have had the discussion many times about perceptions, realities, etc. of the basketball program in Blacksburg. Sometimes CVille posts so much of the "reality" that it sounds like we will be lucky to keep fielding a team of basketball players in Blacksburg. As Will said, he isn't making these things up. It's what he hears and experiences with his own eyes. I do get that; however, there are also things VT can do to move forward and brighten the future of the program. To be fair to CVille, he has expressed some of these things as well........I just wish he would do more of that, and less posts about the morbid "realities" the program faces in Blacksburg :-)
    Well, there you go again. And again.

    Here are your mis-characterizations:
    "low ceiling"
    "potential of the program"
    "nearly impossible to recruit here"
    "lucky not to be in the basement"
    "lucky to keep fielding a team of basketball players"

    I've got $1000 that says he never said those things. But you continue to attribute them to him. Over, and over and over again. Just look at your two posts in this branch of the thread alone. This makes you dishonest at minimum, or just not very bright. I'm banking on the former.

    And I feel for you. I really do. The fact that you were proven so damn wrong in your assertion that VT was a plumb coaching job in the ACC that all kinds of top-notch coaches would want must be a hard pill to swallow.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    VT may not be a "plumb" job, but our trajectory has been more horizontal than vertical.
    I don't really know what that means. There were very few head coaches who applied for the VT head coach job. And you can see by the long delays in JJ naming a staff that there are also a lot of assistant coaches wondering if they should step into this situation as well.

  10. #40
    Hubman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    Well, there you go again. And again.

    Here are your mis-characterizations:
    "low ceiling"
    "potential of the program"
    "nearly impossible to recruit here"
    "lucky not to be in the basement"
    "lucky to keep fielding a team of basketball players"

    I've got $1000 that says he never said those things. But you continue to attribute them to him. Over, and over and over again. Just look at your two posts in this branch of the thread alone. This makes you dishonest at minimum, or just not very bright. I'm banking on the former.

    And I feel for you. I really do. The fact that you were proven so damn wrong in your assertion that VT was a plumb coaching job in the ACC that all kinds of top-notch coaches would want must be a hard pill to swallow.
    Your post does not even warrant a response. I have absolutely no respect for anything you have to say.
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

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