Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 12345678913 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 151
  1. #21
    reestuart's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 07, 1999
    Location
    roanoke, va
    Posts
    59,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Hilton View Post
    I don't buy your "pitch" either. To summarize:

    1) We have no problems getting urban kids to come to Blacksburg to play football. Half our team is from Tidewater. And it makes no logical sense to argue that "urban football players like the country, but urban basketball players don't". People are people and kids are kids. I don't think basketball players have some type of anti-country gene. :-)

    2) We have a huge commitment to basketball. We just invested $20M (practice facility) into our program a few years ago. Seth has had a huge financial backing since he's been here. He's been given money to spent where he wants, and he chose a practice facility. The salaries of our assistants are probably more of a factor of what we're getting. If Seth wanted another $100K to give to them, he could get it. After all, Weaver gave him $20M for a couple of basketball courts. What's another $100K a year? Not much.

    3) IMO, expecting an NCAA appearance every 4 years or so isn't asking much for a BCS program. I will somewhat agree with you as far as people coming to the games. I'm disappointed with that, along with the student commitment. We almost never fill up Cassell. But, fans don't score buckets.....
    I agree with you. Location is a disadvantage, but it can be overcome. To think it's that big of deal for bball and almost none for football makes no sense at all. If we're recruiting the state, these kids are coming from the same areas and high schools.
    "Knowledge is good"

    --Emil Faber, 1904

  2. #22

    Join Date
    September 17, 2001
    Posts
    29,098
    Quote Originally Posted by WestEndHokie39 View Post
    That was quite the epic distortion of his post.
    Location = Greenberg for some posters.
    "That's some catch, that Catch 22!" - Capt. Yossarian

  3. #23

    Join Date
    June 11, 2002
    Posts
    738
    Tough question...I guess it would depend which mid-major...the money would obviously be better as a head coach at VT, but there are some things you can do as a mid-major to combat some of the problems you face

    for instance, mid-majors rarely get good post players...most of the time, if you have a good post player on a mid-major team, it's because he developed well after entering college...what you can do to combat that is to recruit smaller players who have flaws in their game, fit them into your system, then gameplan around their weaknesses...recruiting 6'6 post players isn't something you can do on a regular basis in the ACCs of the world unless theyre freak athletes

    mid-major have to be more efficient...you cant waste your time on a prospect that is flirting with major programs...you have to use the recruiting budget wisely, because it's pocket change to everyone else...you have to be real with what your program is, have a clear defined sense of what you're going for, then recruit to that system...find players who excel in what your focus is, even if they are a little deficient in other areas...

    as a BCS school, it's harder to use those types of players in your program, because the "big boys" in your league will expose their weaknesses...you can still gameplan around some weaknesses, it's just a lot harder

    everything else is just a money issue, and at many places, the fan support is pretty slim...the school I was at, our fans were pretty fair-weather...even as we won two conference championships, and were the only school in the nation (besides Gonzaga) to play in the conference championship game for 6 straight seasons, 7 straight seasons of 20+ wins and an exciting team to watch with a future NBA prospect on the floor each night...they don't know what they have...but I digress

    some mid-majors have GREAT fan support though...I hate Ohio U., I've stated that before...but their fans are the best I've seen outside of Duke, and that's including VT at its best...theyre organized, theyre loud at the right points, theyre loud the entire game, theyre pretty comical...its a great atmosphere...and there's not a lot of money in that program either, but their fans flat out get it done, and it's hard to win there...

    in my time at the mid-major I was at, we were fortunate enough to land a 7'0 who was one of the top 100 players in the nation coming out of high school, beating out Pitt, WVU and VT (James Johnson wanted him badly)...we got VERY lucky in that case and that instance is a huge exception rather than the rule...

    I would have to say, that if I were a head coach, that I would rather have mid-major problems than the ones facing VT...I've stated before to people close to me that as sad as it is, until the culture of the program changes, if I am fortunate enough to rise to that level (which is obviously an uphill climb) that I'm no sure I'd be willing to work at VT, my alma mater, and a school I love and will always love

  4. #24

    Join Date
    October 07, 1999
    Posts
    4,853
    Wow, you post a bleak assessment of VT basketball. Is it really so bad that a Hokie wouldn't jump at one day being the head coach? If it's as bad as you project, speaking the total package, it would seem VT is headed for the role of perennial cellar dweller in the ACC. Recent hires at UVA, Maryland, NCSU, Clemson, and BC seem to have those programs on the rise, and GT and Miami at least have the NBA city advantage along with BC. Incoming Cuse and Pitt may be able to challenge UNC and Duke. WF is not as rural as VT. The Hokies had early success in a down ACC, but you have to wonder what success the Hokies can have down the road, and after tying for the cellar this year, what their basketball future holds.I hope the deficiencies are corrected immediately, as I fear it will be hard to reverse a losing trend at VT.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    June 11, 2002
    Posts
    738
    The good news is that with some commitment, the program has some real potential...the ACC will undergo some changes soon that will make it become again, the premier conference in the nation...more importantly, there will be some serious challengers each year to Duke and UNC, which could level the playing field on the recruiting trail in this area, even if only a little bit...and in the big picture of the program, it is still better off than before Greenberg arrived, so we've been trending upward, we've just stalled out a little

    if VT can get out of this funk, continue an upward trend as the league itself trends upward, it could ride that success to becoming a consistent winning program

  6. #26

    Join Date
    May 16, 2003
    Posts
    2,504
    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    I have worked for the past 2 years at a mid-major school in the Midwest with one conference tournament championship (and NCAA berth) and a regular season conference championship

    our DOBO (Dir. of Basketball Ops.) made $12-$15k more than what Adrian Autry made as a DOBO at VT, and our top assistant isn't too far off from the 2nd and third assistants at VT now.

    all of this relates back to the argument that has been presented many times on this and other Virginia Tech message boards...the argument that there are distinct disadvantages on the basketball program at VT

    myself and many others have talked about VT's geographical disadvantage, and that came to light when Hokiehaven caught up with VT target, Darrell Johnson, who talked about VT's distance from the closest airport (read as: urban environment)

    "I was surprised how far they were from the airport," he said. "That was the most surprising thing. They were really far and it took two flights since they are a smaller airport."

    these are facts...VT's location hurts them when recruiting in basketball...basketball is a much more urban game than football, it is a lot easier to get football kids to come to a rural environment than it is for basketball...that's why VT can pull some of the top notch talent in their recruiting classes in football, but basketball can't make the same strides

    Also a factor in football's success on the recruiting trail is the commitment from the athletic department to the program...before Greenberg, basketball just got the scraps of whatever was left, but Greenberg fought to get a state-of-the-art basketball facility on campus to help in recruiting and recruiting alone...the next step will be coming up with money to retain good assistants as well as attract more talented assistants to an ACC program with some potential with the right amount of commitment

    As fans, the best thing you can do is try to facilitate the commitment...urge Weaver to spend more money in basketball, or better yet, write a check! If you want VT to take the next step, don't lament on getting a new coach who will come in with the same restrictions, change the restrictions themselves (the ones you can change anyway, Blacksburg will never be located in Richmond)...

    You want Shaka Smart, Greg Marshall, John Groce (vomit)? Find the wealthiest people you know to significantly raise the commitment level of the athletic department to the program...one of the things about the business of college coaching that many people don't realize is that coaches socialize with one another...a lot...especially in college basketball...it's a prerequisite to finding a job, you have to know people...and in doing that, coaches talk...and the word on the street is that Blacksburg is an extremely tough place to win consistently because of the factors I've discussed

    1) Location
    2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
    3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

    all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

    a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

    if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...
    I'm going to be blunt.

    If you are in the BB business, you need to get out now.

    You have no vision and no imagination.

    You see things as you believe them to be, not as what they can be. That's not a formula for success.

    CFB had many more challenges than you have presented here.

    Thank God this man saw a great opportunity to do something special. And when he did, he got all the money and facilities that he could use, but not before.

    And that's the only way VT can get to the next level in BB... find someone with his mindset.

    I'll say it again, because it is the truth: Great players will play for a great coach.......anywhere!

    Anything that is achieved in life that leaves a legacy is done so despite the obstacles, not by going by what "everyone else thinks".

    If this were not so, then everyone would achieve great things; instead most live their lives in quite desperation, maybe gaming the system, becoming bit players on a larger stage, and telling themselves and anyone that will listen, how smart they are.
    Last edited by VPI63; Thu Apr 12 2012 at 03:26 AM.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    November 21, 2008
    Posts
    5,086
    Quote Originally Posted by VPI63 View Post
    I'm going to be blunt.

    If you are in the BB business, you need to get out now.

    You have no vision and no imagination.

    You see things as you believe them to be, not as what they can be. That's not a formula for success.

    CFB had many more challenges than you have presented here.

    Thank God this man saw a great opportunity to do something special. And when he did, he got all the money and facilities that he could use, but not before.

    And that's the only way VT can get to the next level in BB... find someone with his mindset.

    I'll say it again, because it is the truth: Great players will play for a great coach.......anywhere!

    Anything that is achieved in life that leaves a legacy is done so despite the obstacles, not by going by what "everyone else thinks".

    If this were not so, then everyone would achieve great things; instead most live their lives in quite desperation, maybe gaming the system, becoming bit players on a larger stage, and telling themselves and anyone that will listen, how smart they are.
    We need fans to have this mindset too. Can't disagree with GCHokie, until big dollars start pumping into the basketball program, you are what you are. My goodness, look how low our ASSTS are paid. That should tell you something.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Gator Hokie's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 15, 2001
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    28,049
    Quote Originally Posted by VPI63 View Post
    I'm going to be blunt.

    If you are in the BB business, you need to get out now.

    You have no vision and no imagination.

    You see things as you believe them to be, not as what they can be. That's not a formula for success.

    CFB had many more challenges than you have presented here.

    Thank God this man saw a great opportunity to do something special. And when he did, he got all the money and facilities that he could use, but not before.

    And that's the only way VT can get to the next level in BB... find someone with his mindset.

    I'll say it again, because it is the truth: Great players will play for a great coach.......anywhere!

    Anything that is achieved in life that leaves a legacy is done so despite the obstacles, not by going by what "everyone else thinks".

    If this were not so, then everyone would achieve great things; instead most live their lives in quite desperation, maybe gaming the system, becoming bit players on a larger stage, and telling themselves and anyone that will listen, how smart they are.
    So that means we need to find an elite coach on the cheap, have him committed to be here forever without having the alum tie that Beamer has, grow the program from zero.

    And have a fan base and athletic department to wait 7 years before seeing some type of result.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    November 02, 1999
    Posts
    1,680

    Good post. Regarding #3...

    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    I have worked for the past 2 years at a mid-major school in the Midwest with one conference tournament championship (and NCAA berth) and a regular season conference championship

    our DOBO (Dir. of Basketball Ops.) made $12-$15k more than what Adrian Autry made as a DOBO at VT, and our top assistant isn't too far off from the 2nd and third assistants at VT now.

    all of this relates back to the argument that has been presented many times on this and other Virginia Tech message boards...the argument that there are distinct disadvantages on the basketball program at VT

    myself and many others have talked about VT's geographical disadvantage, and that came to light when Hokiehaven caught up with VT target, Darrell Johnson, who talked about VT's distance from the closest airport (read as: urban environment)

    "I was surprised how far they were from the airport," he said. "That was the most surprising thing. They were really far and it took two flights since they are a smaller airport."

    these are facts...VT's location hurts them when recruiting in basketball...basketball is a much more urban game than football, it is a lot easier to get football kids to come to a rural environment than it is for basketball...that's why VT can pull some of the top notch talent in their recruiting classes in football, but basketball can't make the same strides

    Also a factor in football's success on the recruiting trail is the commitment from the athletic department to the program...before Greenberg, basketball just got the scraps of whatever was left, but Greenberg fought to get a state-of-the-art basketball facility on campus to help in recruiting and recruiting alone...the next step will be coming up with money to retain good assistants as well as attract more talented assistants to an ACC program with some potential with the right amount of commitment

    As fans, the best thing you can do is try to facilitate the commitment...urge Weaver to spend more money in basketball, or better yet, write a check! If you want VT to take the next step, don't lament on getting a new coach who will come in with the same restrictions, change the restrictions themselves (the ones you can change anyway, Blacksburg will never be located in Richmond)...

    You want Shaka Smart, Greg Marshall, John Groce (vomit)? Find the wealthiest people you know to significantly raise the commitment level of the athletic department to the program...one of the things about the business of college coaching that many people don't realize is that coaches socialize with one another...a lot...especially in college basketball...it's a prerequisite to finding a job, you have to know people...and in doing that, coaches talk...and the word on the street is that Blacksburg is an extremely tough place to win consistently because of the factors I've discussed

    1) Location
    2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
    3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

    all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

    a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

    if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...
    I don't think it's just the fans who have a mediocre commitment to fill the stands. It's the athletic dept as well. Ever since VT joined the ACC, my impression has been that Weaver & co could care less how many butts are in seats, as long as the revenue keeps flowing in. There have been many changes made since ACC membership that have contributed to a fan-unfriendly environment. Ticket prices have been jacked up. An overemphasis on season tickets has killed walkup crowds. The student section has grown smaller and relocated to less desirable seats. There are rarely (if ever) discounted tickets for any games and no family plans available.

    Basically, I think Weaver just decided that as soon as VT was admitted to the ACC, he could start running the basketball ticketing operation as though it was football. And he was right for a couple of years- the excitement of being in the ACC was enough to generate the same type of demand for bball tix as we've seen for a much more successful football program. Now, though, reality (and apathy) has set in for the basketball fanbase. When that happens, the athletic dept needs to realize that they are no longer in a seller's market and they need to take steps to encourage more fans to actually show up at Cassell. They could start by scheduling more weekend games during daylight hours, moving the students back to halfcourt to generate more of a fun atmosphere in the arena, offering discounts on non-league or lower tier ACC games, and allowing people to purchase season ticket mini-plans for the big games (Duke, UNC, etc) so those seats won't be empty for all the other games.

  10. #30

    Join Date
    October 07, 1999
    Posts
    75,976
    Excellent post.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •