Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567812 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 151
  1. #11

    Join Date
    November 21, 2008
    Posts
    5,086
    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    that's not a valid analogy...

    I'm not "selling" you a new product, it's a product you've already bought...you're coming to this message board and asking (demanding) changes to make the product better...I'm explaining what your product actually is, as opposed to what your perception of it is...I'm telling you, if you want changes in your product, the company (VT basketball) needs more capitol to make the investments necessary to do so...if you don't like that answer, there's not much I can do for you except tell you to enjoy your product as is, because management (VT athletic department) has only given so much rope to work with

    does that jive with your analogy?
    Spot On.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    June 11, 2002
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Hilton View Post
    Well, I guess I have witnessed something different. The blue chip players in both football and basketball want to play for a program/coach who can get them to the next level. That school can be located in Casper, Wyoming, and kids will go there. That's the key. That's why Beamer and staff can get kids to come to Blacksburg. That's why Northwestern (ie, Chicago) can't get kids to go there. Kids want to play in the NFL and NBA, and they want a program that will get them there. Sure, there are other factors, but that is the big one. No difference. Kids are kids. They are just like you and me. They want to make money. It's common sense, not genetics.
    Agree to disagree I guess...

    Northwestern faces its own challenges, and theyve had a great coach there who couldn't get them over the hump...I've been to Northwestern (a month ago actually) and I would hesitate to call their campus anything resembling "urban"...and their facilities are severely lacking...Northwestern is a school whose challenges are also a lack of commitment, but also some restrictions on the type of kids they can recruit academically

  3. #13

    Join Date
    June 11, 2002
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by ctdc79 View Post
    Great info GC Hokie. It's sobering to read, but obvious that you have the history with the program and know it's challenges. Are you still connected to anyone in the program? Any information you could share would be great. Along with Rev Zeke, you're one of the few bball posters I've noticed who seem to have inside info.

    So I take it from your last note on coaches "communicating" with each other, that the VT asst coach opening isn't generating much high level interest? Is there any indication from the VTAD that they are working on raising the pay of the coaches?
    I know little to nothing with regards to the new openings on the staff, as I have not come into contact with any coaches who have been targeted. I am a VT alum, I am a big fan of my alma mater and wear that on my sleeve...and so when I come on to a staff or meet new coaches, VT always becomes a topic of discussion, and the challenges VT faces are always discussed...and the same conclusion is always reached

    my "sources" within the VT staff are not what they used to be as I have not worked with the program in over 3 years. The last of the players I knew when I was there have now graduated or transferred. I have worked with Coach Johnson at my new job for some scouting reports, so I do get to talk with some of them, but usually about work that needs to get done on my end. So my knowledge of recruits or coaching vacancies would be minimal. I only know about the nature of the beast in college basketball in general. I could talk at length about the challenges mid-majors face though haha

  4. #14

    Join Date
    January 14, 2000
    Location
    Rockville VA
    Posts
    25,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    So, VT is located in a place that will never allow it to compete in basketball. Also, the athletic department does not value the basketball program enough to treat it like a BCS program should be treated.......

    The answer.......the fans need to lower their expectations and donate more money to the program?

    If we were on the show "Shark Tank", I don't think I would be investing in your pitch........
    That was quite the epic distortion of his post.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    July 11, 2001
    Posts
    18,411
    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    that's not a valid analogy...

    I'm not "selling" you a new product, it's a product you've already bought...you're coming to this message board and asking (demanding) changes to make the product better...I'm explaining what your product actually is, as opposed to what your perception of it is...I'm telling you, if you want changes in your product, the company (VT basketball) needs more capitol to make the investments necessary to do so...if you don't like that answer, there's not much I can do for you except tell you to enjoy your product as is, because management (VT athletic department) has only given so much rope to work with

    does that jive with your analogy?
    Generally, when investors feel that current management is under-performing with the capital invested already allotted to them, they will be reluctant to invest further. Management will *always* say that more money is what's holding back, and investors will tell them "perform at this level first before I drop more money on this."

    At some point, you simply must start performing, and even considering all of the challenges, making the bubble a bunch of times doesn't cut it when you're only dancing once a decade.

    I agree that there needs to be a bigger financial commitment to the Basketball program, but think that Weaver needs to figure out a different place for that money to come from in the short term. Show the fans that an increase in financial support will work and they'll pay. But with the economy the way it is and money being as tight as it is, you're going to have to deliver more than this program has over the last 10 years for "just give us more money and we'll start making the Dance, I promise!" to work.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  6. #16

    Join Date
    June 11, 2002
    Posts
    738
    I think everyone agrees there needs to be a bigger commitment to the program...the only problem left is where that money comes from...fans won't come without results, results won't come without money, money won't come without fans...someone has to give or it will continue to spiral until it reaches a breaking point and the program is less desirable than it currently is...someone, whether that's Weaver or alumni/fans, needs to step up and break the cycle...if you don't wanna give to the program, cool, start a letter writing campaign to the athletic department demanding more support...if you buy season tickets and cant go, make sure *someone* gets those tickets and gets in that seat (and part of that responsibility falls on the athletic department too)

    Greenberg has work to do on his part as well as I'm sure he is well aware...his backcourt needs help, he needs to fill positions with the right people, he needs to continue to develop the young talent and get more of a flow to the offense...everyone involved has some blame in where we are, and everyone involved can play a part in changing the direction...who will step up first?

  7. #17

    Join Date
    January 01, 2005
    Posts
    1,479
    concerning various thread comparisons of WVU & VT in BBALL.... WVU is not really rural.... it is 45 minutes from Pittsburgh (the same of VT to Roanoke) - WVU is 90 minutes from DC, on the border of the with state of Pennsylvannia/ Ohio (recruiting hotbeds for fb & bball)

    VT is really rural....in the sticks.... 4-5 hours from any true urban area..............its no more rural than fairfas & noerthern va are from DC

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    I know little to nothing with regards to the new openings on the staff, as I have not come into contact with any coaches who have been targeted. I am a VT alum, I am a big fan of my alma mater and wear that on my sleeve...and so when I come on to a staff or meet new coaches, VT always becomes a topic of discussion, and the challenges VT faces are always discussed...and the same conclusion is always reached

    my "sources" within the VT staff are not what they used to be as I have not worked with the program in over 3 years. The last of the players I knew when I was there have now graduated or transferred. I have worked with Coach Johnson at my new job for some scouting reports, so I do get to talk with some of them, but usually about work that needs to get done on my end. So my knowledge of recruits or coaching vacancies would be minimal. I only know about the nature of the beast in college basketball in general. I could talk at length about the challenges mid-majors face though haha
    Would you rather face the VT problems or the mid-major problems?

  9. #19

    Join Date
    January 01, 2005
    Location
    Bridgewater, VA
    Posts
    421

    Millions for a practice facility but can't find 100k for assistant coaches?????

    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    I have worked for the past 2 years at a mid-major school in the Midwest with one conference tournament championship (and NCAA berth) and a regular season conference championship

    our DOBO (Dir. of Basketball Ops.) made $12-$15k more than what Adrian Autry made as a DOBO at VT, and our top assistant isn't too far off from the 2nd and third assistants at VT now.

    all of this relates back to the argument that has been presented many times on this and other Virginia Tech message boards...the argument that there are distinct disadvantages on the basketball program at VT

    myself and many others have talked about VT's geographical disadvantage, and that came to light when Hokiehaven caught up with VT target, Darrell Johnson, who talked about VT's distance from the closest airport (read as: urban environment)

    "I was surprised how far they were from the airport," he said. "That was the most surprising thing. They were really far and it took two flights since they are a smaller airport."

    these are facts...VT's location hurts them when recruiting in basketball...basketball is a much more urban game than football, it is a lot easier to get football kids to come to a rural environment than it is for basketball...that's why VT can pull some of the top notch talent in their recruiting classes in football, but basketball can't make the same strides

    Also a factor in football's success on the recruiting trail is the commitment from the athletic department to the program...before Greenberg, basketball just got the scraps of whatever was left, but Greenberg fought to get a state-of-the-art basketball facility on campus to help in recruiting and recruiting alone...the next step will be coming up with money to retain good assistants as well as attract more talented assistants to an ACC program with some potential with the right amount of commitment

    As fans, the best thing you can do is try to facilitate the commitment...urge Weaver to spend more money in basketball, or better yet, write a check! If you want VT to take the next step, don't lament on getting a new coach who will come in with the same restrictions, change the restrictions themselves (the ones you can change anyway, Blacksburg will never be located in Richmond)...

    You want Shaka Smart, Greg Marshall, John Groce (vomit)? Find the wealthiest people you know to significantly raise the commitment level of the athletic department to the program...one of the things about the business of college coaching that many people don't realize is that coaches socialize with one another...a lot...especially in college basketball...it's a prerequisite to finding a job, you have to know people...and in doing that, coaches talk...and the word on the street is that Blacksburg is an extremely tough place to win consistently because of the factors I've discussed

    1) Location
    2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
    3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

    all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

    a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

    if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...
    That doesn't make good sense. If we are going to invest that much in a basketball facility, why wouldn't we invest another 100-200k per year to attract and retain good assistant coaches. Beamer has always been able to get what he wants for his asst coaches. Does Seth not have the pull with Weaver to get the same consideration for his coaches? It doesn't make good business sense to me if that is the reason our coaches are leaving.
    Remember it JMO so be nice

  10. #20
    reestuart's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 07, 1999
    Location
    roanoke, va
    Posts
    59,456
    Quote Originally Posted by dna-vt View Post
    concerning various thread comparisons of WVU & VT in BBALL.... WVU is not really rural.... it is 45 minutes from Pittsburgh (the same of VT to Roanoke) - WVU is 90 minutes from DC, on the border of the with state of Pennsylvannia/ Ohio (recruiting hotbeds for fb & bball)

    VT is really rural....in the sticks.... 4-5 hours from any true urban area..............its no more rural than fairfas & noerthern va are from DC
    WVU is every bit as rural as VT. VT is only a couple of hours from Winston-Salem/Greensboro. About 3 from Charlotte. Morgantown is 75 miles from Pittsburgh. Not 45. It's 4 hours from DC. Not 90 minutes.
    "Knowledge is good"

    --Emil Faber, 1904

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •