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  1. #31

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    I think march madness is awful. Basketball isn't a 1-loss sport... there should be a 16-tm playoff there with a best of 3 series each weekend (Wed-Fri-Sat; Thur-Sat-Sun). Heck, make it a double elimination tourney like baseball and I'd probably be ok with it. Doubt you'll ever see me promote March Madness as the model for how a champion should be crowned in hoops.

    NFL model... div champs get homefield. Win a shirty div at 8-8 and you get home field over teams that are sitting at 11 or 12 wins. That ain't right for CFB.

    Problem with a playoff in CFB is I am not sure how it works "fairly". Everyone seems like they believe conf champs should be in there yet nobody was nearly as outraged that Bama played for the MNC this year (as opposed to Neb that made it in past years with cries of "they didn't deserve it!") so obviously BCS has major issues. Do you let in just conference champs? What if this year you get a conference like SEC with 3 of top 8 teams, 5 of top 16? Does quality on the field determine who gets in? If so, how do you define quality when there are vastly different strength of schedules in a conference let alone across the country?

    That written, I have to come up with a "solution" to be fair. Create seven "9-team" leagues based off the old conferences... BE, ACC, B10, SEC, SWC, B8, P10. Each champ gets in 8tm playoff. Midmajors get 1 bid --- 4tm playoff between Mtn West, WAC, MAC, and CUSA with the champ getting into the 8th spot. No ranking of spots as the ranking systems are fundamentally flawed (people are innately biased, impossible to set up computers w/o MOV imo) so the home games in rd 1 are based on rotating sites --- 7 "BCS" cities with each one getting four rd 1 gms, 2 semis, 1 final in a 7year cycle. How to split the money... 1 money unit to each conf (majors get 1/8th, four midmajors get 1/8th collectively). "Put we have more teams!" from the bigger conferences... tough, nobody said you had to have that many.

    I put the genie back in the bottle with back to 9 team leagues so if that doesn't work, I think you have to come up with a way to get an odd number of BCS conf members in so little kids can play with the big boys or break away from NCAA, set up four "16tm" conferences with top two from each conf getting into the playoff (I simply don't trust polls/selection committees). Note: this alternative will likely take years to work out in the court system.

    And no, none of this will work. : /

  2. #32

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    February 16, 2001
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    LOL we actually agree on a lot here. I have always thought that March Madness killed the regular season. I would love to see them go to the regular season conference champs being the ones that make the tournament. I have always thought that a 4 or 5 day conference tournament killed the attendance of the regular season for the majority of the teams. I also think a double elimination tournament would be more interesting and more importantly be better at crowning the most deserving champion.

    That said, I think the football is headed close to what your are talking about with the 9 team conference. However, call them divisions instead of conferences and you will basically be there. I am still not sure that they can do this with only 16 teams in a conference. I too think the politics will make it difficult to stop at 16. I have posted this several times on this board, but if you look at the ones that get left out from the original post they are either in a small population state or they have a dominant team(s) in their state that does not want another team from there state to be included. This should be interesting to watch, but it has gone to far to turn back now and while it is not all good...it is not all bad either and it has some benefits that make sense for some kids that do not have spending money for college like a lot of kids. Yes there will be a cost of living stipend and that is why the football schools without much attendance are going to struggle IMHO.

  3. #33
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gern View Post
    I think march madness is awful. Basketball isn't a 1-loss sport... there should be a 16-tm playoff there with a best of 3 series each weekend (Wed-Fri-Sat; Thur-Sat-Sun). Heck, make it a double elimination tourney like baseball and I'd probably be ok with it. Doubt you'll ever see me promote March Madness as the model for how a champion should be crowned in hoops.

    NFL model... div champs get homefield. Win a shirty div at 8-8 and you get home field over teams that are sitting at 11 or 12 wins. That ain't right for CFB.

    Problem with a playoff in CFB is I am not sure how it works "fairly". Everyone seems like they believe conf champs should be in there yet nobody was nearly as outraged that Bama played for the MNC this year (as opposed to Neb that made it in past years with cries of "they didn't deserve it!") so obviously BCS has major issues. Do you let in just conference champs? What if this year you get a conference like SEC with 3 of top 8 teams, 5 of top 16? Does quality on the field determine who gets in? If so, how do you define quality when there are vastly different strength of schedules in a conference let alone across the country?

    That written, I have to come up with a "solution" to be fair. Create seven "9-team" leagues based off the old conferences... BE, ACC, B10, SEC, SWC, B8, P10. Each champ gets in 8tm playoff. Midmajors get 1 bid --- 4tm playoff between Mtn West, WAC, MAC, and CUSA with the champ getting into the 8th spot. No ranking of spots as the ranking systems are fundamentally flawed (people are innately biased, impossible to set up computers w/o MOV imo) so the home games in rd 1 are based on rotating sites --- 7 "BCS" cities with each one getting four rd 1 gms, 2 semis, 1 final in a 7year cycle. How to split the money... 1 money unit to each conf (majors get 1/8th, four midmajors get 1/8th collectively). "Put we have more teams!" from the bigger conferences... tough, nobody said you had to have that many.

    I put the genie back in the bottle with back to 9 team leagues so if that doesn't work, I think you have to come up with a way to get an odd number of BCS conf members in so little kids can play with the big boys or break away from NCAA, set up four "16tm" conferences with top two from each conf getting into the playoff (I simply don't trust polls/selection committees). Note: this alternative will likely take years to work out in the court system.

    And no, none of this will work. : /
    since no one will tell the schools or conferences how their membership should be determined or what the format of their membership should be, we'll start from there. in 2014 when the new BCS kicks in, there will be 10 conferences, 5 in the top tier, 2 in the mid-tier, and 3 bringing up the rear...

    knowing the "playoff" in 2014 will never have more than 4 teams, i'm going into fantasyland from this point.

    use BCS as we know it today to rank teams.

    top 4 conference champs in the BCS are in as 1-2-3-4 seeds and a home game in round 2.

    the #5 conference champ plays @ #4 in round 2

    #6-11 are the remaining 5 conference champs and 1 at large team who is automatically #11 regardless of rank. those winners will be reseeded according to their BCS rank after the first round as the 6, 7 and 8 seeds for round 2.

    that's how i would do it if there were no time contraints or other considerations that only exist in college football.

    knowing it can only be 4, i would put #1 and #2 in the BCS in along with the next 2 highest rated conference champs with the top 2 ranked conference champs hosting the semi-finals on campus and play a championship game at a neutral site around NYD.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  4. #34

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    100% disagree with the need for stipends to play athletics. If you are covering education, room and board, that is enough. Paying these kids between $10-50k a year is enough. Heck, out of state tuition to Univ of Mich is between $50-53k without room+board. End of the day, you get a great deal and all you need for "fun money" can easily be earned in 6-8 wks over the summer with a part time job.

    Once they officially pay these kids, I'm done with it. As it is, it is very close to being a pro league which isn't what I want to support for my school.

  5. #35
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gern View Post
    100% disagree with the need for stipends to play athletics. If you are covering education, room and board, that is enough. Paying these kids between $10-50k a year is enough. Heck, out of state tuition to Univ of Mich is between $50-53k without room+board. End of the day, you get a great deal and all you need for "fun money" can easily be earned in 6-8 wks over the summer with a part time job.

    Once they officially pay these kids, I'm done with it. As it is, it is very close to being a pro league which isn't what I want to support for my school.
    couldn't agree more...at that point, classes should be optional and the school should be considered a corporate sponsor of the football team.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  6. #36

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    I will admit I have mixed emotions about it, but I don't have mixed emotions that the cost of living stipend is where the top tier is headed.

  7. #37

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    A playoff would be determined by what? Same people that pick NCAA basketball? Uggh if so. To much politics. Plus one will work one day if you have four 16 teams conferences. That may not happen due to right now SEC feels like the have the best four teams. LOL they may. March Madness is everyone's dream for football. a tourney of kind. Like NCAA tourney will be corrupt. While the systems we have needs more work I agree. Most of time it gets the best team has champ. Still with all cheating going on how really do you know? I mean USC vacated title. No champ for that year. I am afraid college football and college athletics in general are getting ready to blow up. In a bad way. GREED. Arrogance. Plain ol dishonest ways will bring her down. Bad thing is better ways of doing business are there but the nature of win win will cloud the product. VT hopefully will never play that ugly game. If they stay cleam maybe one day them and other alike will win out.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by gern View Post
    Given a decision has been clearly made to chase the all-mighty dollar at all costs (morality, ethics, and scholastics are now deemed unnecessary pieces), relegation would be appropriate way to address different programmes. You want to be a big boy, win the midmajors then get a spot at top level. If you can't compete at top level (Duke, UK, Miss St, Baylor, Iowa St, NW, etc), move down and make way. No more special treatment of big name schools with bad years or saddled by probation.

    Good luck trying to get any coach, AD, or president to sign up for that risk (eg Texas at 5-7 would've been relegated in 2010... imagine that impact to the Longhorn Network).
    You're been in the Land of Oz a relatively short while, but you're already picked Aussie spelling. " ... programmes ...", indeed.

  9. #39

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    i find their language colourful

    : )

  10. #40
    Hokie CPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Line Hokie View Post
    I put together what could be the four 16 team BCS conferences. I keep reading that there will eventually be just 4 superconferences. I also read about the individual conferences being divided into 4 pods. I see numerous problems with just 64 schools and the pod setup. If schools like Boise State, TCU, Baylor, Cincinnati, and USF get left out, you can expect some nice lawsuits against the BCS. I can see their state and federal political leaders getting involved. I'm sure that the issue will be taken up in Congress. Things will get very ugly.

    I also can't see the Big 10 adding a school like Kansas State or Iowa State just to get to 16. Would the SEC add WVU and Louisville? What you would most likely have are the 4 conferences involved trying to take schools from each other's conferences. IMHO, after the Big East and Big 12 desirables have been picked through, the ACC would be the conference that the SEC and Big 10 would be picking from to get to 16.

    Then you have the pod setup. Dividing each conference into four 4 team pods would most likely cause the further loss of more annual traditional rivarlries. Plus it would likely create unequal pods in terms of competition. An all ACC North Carolina pod would be weak compared to a very strong Southern pod (Clemson, FSU, GT, Miami). There would be traditionally weak and strong pods in most of the 4 BCS conferences. I don't think that would go over well with schools playing in a pod loaded with traditionally competitvie teams.

    At this point, I can't see a 64 team BCS super conference. There appears to be too many problems with it. Below is an EXAMPLE of what the four 16 team BCS conferences could look like.

    Tear it apart and make your own revisions!
    Here's how I see it shaking out:

    The alleged CUSA-MWC Merger goes through.

    Notre and UConn join the ACC.

    Rutgers, Boston College, Kansas and Kansas State join the Big Ten, the ACC snags Navy.

    Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State go west, young man, to the Pac-16.

    West Virginia and Cincinnati join SEC. Baylor, Iowa State, TCU and Utah State join the Big East. The Big XII dissolves.

    The WAC and Sun Belt merge.

    You're left with this...

    The Big 4 "BCS" Conferences:
    ACC Big Ten Pac-16 SEC
    North Pod Eastern Pod Eastern Pod Eastern Pod
    Connecticut Boston College Oklahoma Florida
    Syracuse Penn State Oklahoma State Georgia
    Notre Dame Ohio State Texas South Carolina
    Pittsburgh Rutgers Texas Tech Tennessee
    Mid-Atlantic Pod Central Pod Mountain Pod Gulf Coast Pod
    Maryland Indiana Colorado Alabama
    Navy Purdue Arizona Auburn
    Virginia Michigan Arizona State Mississippi
    Virginia Tech Michigan State Utah Mississippi State
    Carolina Pod Northern Pod Golden State Pod Central Pod
    North Carolina Northwestern USC Kentucky
    Duke Wisconsin UCLA Vanderbilt
    NC State Minnesota Stanford Cincinnati
    Wake Forest Illinois Cal West Virginia
    Southern Pod Western Pod Northwest Pod Western Pod
    Clemson Iowa Oregon Arkansas
    Georgia Tech Kansas Oregon State LSU
    Florida State Kansas State Washington Tennessee
    Miami Nebraska Washington State Texas A&M


    On the outside, looking in:
    CUSA-MWC
    MAC
    Sun Belt-WAC
    Big "East"
    Eastern Pod Eastern Division Eastern Pod Eastern Division
    East Carolina Akron Florida Atlantic Central Florida
    Southern Miss Temple Florida Internat'l South Florida
    Tulane Toledo South Alabama Houston
    UAB Buffalo Troy Iowa State
    Southern Pod Massachusetts Central Pod Louisville
    Marshall Miami-OH Arkansas State Memphis
    Rice Ohio Louisiana Tech
    Tulsa Middle Tenn State
    UTEP Western Kentucky
    Western Pod Western Division Gulf Coast Pod Western Division
    Air Force Ball State North Texas Baylor
    Colorado State Bowling Green Texas State Boise State
    New Mexico Central Michigan Louisiana-Monroe San Diego State
    Wyoming Eastern Michigan Louisiana-Laff. SMU
    Pacific Pod Kent Western Pod TCU
    Fresno State Northern Illinois Idaho Utah State
    Hawaii Western Michigan New Mexico State
    Nevada San Jose State
    UNLV Texas-San Antonio

    Remaining Independent: Army and BYU

    That sets up for an 8-team playoff consisting of each conference's champion. Army and BYU would have to join a conference (Big East?) in order to participate in the playoffs.

    This year the SEC would have sent LSU, the ACC would have sent Clemson, The Big Ten would have sent Wisconsin, the Pac-16 would have sent the Oregon/Oklahoma State winner, the Big East would have sent the Houston/Boise State winner, CUSA would have sent Nevada, most likely, the MAC would have sent Northern Illinois and the Sun-Belt/WAC would have sent the Arkansas State-Louisiana Tech winner.

    Round 1 would have been:
    1 LSU 8 Arky St/LA Tech
    2 Oregon/OK State 7 Northern Illinois
    3 Houston/Boise State 6 Nevada
    4 Wisconsin 5 Clemson
    Last edited by Hokie CPA; Wed Apr 11 2012 at 04:12 PM.
    *.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*. *.*.*.*.*.*

    I just wish we would STOP with the zone blocking read option crap and line up in the I, put a hat on a hat and run the tailback behind the fullback through a designated gosh-danged hole. There is NO REASON why this program shouldn't be able to find 5 fat guys who can move some people out of the way and clear a lane for a back to get through!

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