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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Hokie View Post
    Same reason we haven't in your lifetime. We are VT, no basketball pedigree...yet.
    You know that to get a "basketball pedigree" you have to do crazy thing like...actually make the tournament, right?
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by nc_hokie87 View Post
    I swear some of our fans cheer against Seth because they'd rather see him ousted than succeed as our bball coach (maybe because he's from NY? because he's jewish?).
    That's a new low, even for you.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  3. #43
    Will Stewart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nc_hokie87 View Post
    I know no one admits it but damn I swear some of our fans cheer against Seth because they'd rather see him ousted than succeed as our bball coach (maybe because he's from NY? because he's jewish?)
    After reading this thread, I want to chime in with two thoughts, one of which is brief -- nc_hokie87's post was the trigger for it -- and one of which is a little more lengthy.

    1.) I have never, either on this board or in personal conversations, heard a single person evaluate Seth's worthiness as VT's coach on the basis of his being Jewish (or not). It makes me wonder if some of our posters who bring up the possibility are looking for something that's not there. I'm not just calling you out, nc_hokie87, there is at least one other poster who appears to be on the same hunt for antisemitism. I don't see it. I do think that Seth's upbringing and background affect how he interacts with people, but isn't that true for all of us? We are the products of our environment and our culture. Seth's no different. But I have never heard anyone say he's not fit to coach VT because he's a "new York Jew." So please quit hunting for something that's not there.

    2.) One of the biggest reasons I posted the poll about Seth's job status (click here to see it) was because I wondered about the numbers behind the heated debates that I see on this board. Since the team started tanking in January, there have been a TON of emotionally-charged, back and forth debates about Seth.

    But here are the numbers: Out of 4,081 people who voted in the poll, only 283 (6.9%) think that Seth should be "fired right now." Almost twice as many, 547 (13.4%), think the exact opposite -- that Seth is doing a great job and his job status shouldn't even be talked about.

    The giant bell-curve in the middle -- the other 78.7% -- think Seth should be given more time to prove himself. Some think he'll be gone, probably soon, others haven't made their minds up yet.

    So, here's my point ... when we get these big back-and-forth threads between Seth supporters and Seth denigraters, what we're actually seeing are the 6.9% going back and forth with the other 93.1%, in some form or fashion. Think about that.

    6.9% is one out of every 14 people. If there were 14 people at a party, and one of them says something like, "Seth did a pretty good job on ESPN, did you see it?" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    Then maybe one of the people says something like, "I think Finney-Smith can be really good. He struggled this year, but he really showed promise at the end of the season." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "How about NC State? They were a bubble team, and now they're in the Sweet 16!" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "Boy, am I glad VCU got eliminated. That was a neat story at first, but as a VT fan, all the VCU love was starting to bug me." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    A question, then: Would you really do that? Would you stand in a group of 14 people, and constantly divert the conversation so you could spew negativity and ugliness? How quickly would the other 13 start looking around, splitting off, maybe going outside for a break, or maybe going to get a drink, so they don't have to listen to you hijack the conversation AGAIN? How quickly would the other 13 people realize that there was no point having a discussion with you, and presenting opposing viewpoints, if all you're going to do is vehemently spew negativity?

    Something to think about. If you're anti-Seth, you have probably made your point by now. Maybe more than you should. It might be time to back off a little bit and quit turning every conversation about something else into an anti-Seth rant. At some point, it just makes you look bad.
    Always use "Reply With Quote", so everyone knows to whom you're responding.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    Something to think about. If you're anti-Seth, you have probably made your point by now. Maybe more than you should. It might be time to back off a little bit and quit turning every conversation about something else into an anti-Seth rant. At some point, it just makes you look bad.
    So, where's the line, though? Do the 14% get a free pass? There's a lot of negativity coming from the vehement pro-Seth crowd as well, including relentless personal attacks and things like nc_87s anti-semite jab. So for every 1 in 14 people who want to derail every thread into an anti-Seth thing, there's twice as many out there who want to derail every thread into attacks on the "anti-seth crowd" which encourages them to snipe back, etc.

    What about the 78% of us who actually want to discuss Hokie basketball, both good and bad things? We can't do that without getting jumped on by someone on either side. Like everyone there's a spectrum within the 78%, and the extremists ruin it for everyone. As someone who leans towards the negative side of that spectrum, are you basically saying don't post anything negative anymore? Because that's kind of what I'm reading. If so, that's cool - it's your board. Just looking for a heads-up here. Thanks in advance.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  5. #45
    Will Stewart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groff View Post
    So, where's the line, though? Do the 14% get a free pass? There's a lot of negativity coming from the vehement pro-Seth crowd as well, including relentless personal attacks and things like nc_87s anti-semite jab. So for every 1 in 14 people who want to derail every thread into an anti-Seth thing, there's twice as many out there who want to derail every thread into attacks on the "anti-seth crowd" which encourages them to snipe back, etc.

    What about the 78% of us who actually want to discuss Hokie basketball, both good and bad things? We can't do that without getting jumped on by someone on either side. Like everyone there's a spectrum within the 78%, and the extremists ruin it for everyone. As someone who leans towards the negative side of that spectrum, are you basically saying don't post anything negative anymore? Because that's kind of what I'm reading. If so, that's cool - it's your board. Just looking for a heads-up here. Thanks in advance.
    Nope, the pendulum definitely swings in both directions. We have deactivated over-the-top PATTs (as they're known -- not my preference to label people) before.

    Basically, you're talking about the nature of message boards -- the passionate posters, on either side of the fence, tend to over-post, while the bell curve in the middle get drowned out. Sad, but talk radio and talk TV works the same way -- the middle of the bell curve listens, while the ends of the bell curve do all the talking.
    Always use "Reply With Quote", so everyone knows to whom you're responding.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    After reading this thread, I want to chime in with two thoughts, one of which is brief -- nc_hokie87's post was the trigger for it -- and one of which is a little more lengthy.

    1.) I have never, either on this board or in personal conversations, heard a single person evaluate Seth's worthiness as VT's coach on the basis of his being Jewish (or not). It makes me wonder if some of our posters who bring up the possibility are looking for something that's not there. I'm not just calling you out, nc_hokie87, there is at least one other poster who appears to be on the same hunt for antisemitism. I don't see it. I do think that Seth's upbringing and background affect how he interacts with people, but isn't that true for all of us? We are the products of our environment and our culture. Seth's no different. But I have never heard anyone say he's not fit to coach VT because he's a "new York Jew." So please quit hunting for something that's not there.

    2.) One of the biggest reasons I posted the poll about Seth's job status (click here to see it) was because I wondered about the numbers behind the heated debates that I see on this board. Since the team started tanking in January, there have been a TON of emotionally-charged, back and forth debates about Seth.

    But here are the numbers: Out of 4,081 people who voted in the poll, only 283 (6.9%) think that Seth should be "fired right now." Almost twice as many, 547 (13.4%), think the exact opposite -- that Seth is doing a great job and his job status shouldn't even be talked about.

    The giant bell-curve in the middle -- the other 78.7% -- think Seth should be given more time to prove himself. Some think he'll be gone, probably soon, others haven't made their minds up yet.

    So, here's my point ... when we get these big back-and-forth threads between Seth supporters and Seth denigraters, what we're actually seeing are the 6.9% going back and forth with the other 93.1%, in some form or fashion. Think about that.

    6.9% is one out of every 14 people. If there were 14 people at a party, and one of them says something like, "Seth did a pretty good job on ESPN, did you see it?" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    Then maybe one of the people says something like, "I think Finney-Smith can be really good. He struggled this year, but he really showed promise at the end of the season." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "How about NC State? They were a bubble team, and now they're in the Sweet 16!" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "Boy, am I glad VCU got eliminated. That was a neat story at first, but as a VT fan, all the VCU love was starting to bug me." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    A question, then: Would you really do that? Would you stand in a group of 14 people, and constantly divert the conversation so you could spew negativity and ugliness? How quickly would the other 13 start looking around, splitting off, maybe going outside for a break, or maybe going to get a drink, so they don't have to listen to you hijack the conversation AGAIN? How quickly would the other 13 people realize that there was no point having a discussion with you, and presenting opposing viewpoints, if all you're going to do is vehemently spew negativity?

    Something to think about. If you're anti-Seth, you have probably made your point by now. Maybe more than you should. It might be time to back off a little bit and quit turning every conversation about something else into an anti-Seth rant. At some point, it just makes you look bad.
    Thanks for a very balanced, enlightening post. I will here forward strive walk away with the other 12 persons and find a more productive discussion.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Hokie View Post
    Thanks for a very balanced, enlightening post. I will here forward strive walk away with the other 12 persons and find a more productive discussion.
    Not calling the posts from people you disagree with "Stupid" would probably go a long way towards that more productive discussion you claim to desire...
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    After reading this thread, I want to chime in with two thoughts, one of which is brief -- nc_hokie87's post was the trigger for it -- and one of which is a little more lengthy.

    1.) I have never, either on this board or in personal conversations, heard a single person evaluate Seth's worthiness as VT's coach on the basis of his being Jewish (or not). It makes me wonder if some of our posters who bring up the possibility are looking for something that's not there. I'm not just calling you out, nc_hokie87, there is at least one other poster who appears to be on the same hunt for antisemitism. I don't see it. I do think that Seth's upbringing and background affect how he interacts with people, but isn't that true for all of us? We are the products of our environment and our culture. Seth's no different. But I have never heard anyone say he's not fit to coach VT because he's a "new York Jew." So please quit hunting for something that's not there.
    Done


    So, here's my point ... when we get these big back-and-forth threads between Seth supporters and Seth denigraters, what we're actually seeing are the 6.9% going back and forth with the other 93.1%, in some form or fashion. Think about that.

    6.9% is one out of every 14 people. If there were 14 people at a party, and one of them says something like, "Seth did a pretty good job on ESPN, did you see it?" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    Then maybe one of the people says something like, "I think Finney-Smith can be really good. He struggled this year, but he really showed promise at the end of the season." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "How about NC State? They were a bubble team, and now they're in the Sweet 16!" ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    If one of the people says, "Boy, am I glad VCU got eliminated. That was a neat story at first, but as a VT fan, all the VCU love was starting to bug me." ... and someone diverts the conversation into criticism of Seth, that drags down the conversation.

    A question, then: Would you really do that? Would you stand in a group of 14 people, and constantly divert the conversation so you could spew negativity and ugliness? How quickly would the other 13 start looking around, splitting off, maybe going outside for a break, or maybe going to get a drink, so they don't have to listen to you hijack the conversation AGAIN? How quickly would the other 13 people realize that there was no point having a discussion with you, and presenting opposing viewpoints, if all you're going to do is vehemently spew negativity?

    Something to think about. If you're anti-Seth, you have probably made your point by now. Maybe more than you should. It might be time to back off a little bit and quit turning every conversation about something else into an anti-Seth rant. At some point, it just makes you look bad.
    This is really what it comes down to. This is a Hokies board. I understand there will be discussions about whether a coach should be kept or fired. I understand people aren't going to agree with each other on everything. But it is sickening and tiresome dealing with EVERY thread turning into a cheap shot at our head coach. I understand the team is struggling, I understand some don't like SG's behavior. I don't agree, but understand that some want him ousted immediately. But it is absolutely not necessary to take any and every chance you get, even threads totally unrelated, and turn it into a cheap shot or dirty innuendo about Seth. Regardless what we do or say on this board, it has little to no effect on his job status- so why put such harsh things out here for the public to see (some players and parents actually DO read the boards)? There have been a few threads with logical back and forth discussions but it has gotten to the point- now that the season is over- to give it a rest. Stop hating on the coach, stop turning every thread into a fire-SG-missile, and lets just accept that SG WILL be our head coach next season. Given that it is more or less a fact he will remain our head coach for next season, lets support him and our players in their/our mutual goal to make the ncaa tournament next year... it is what we all should want. And in order for it to happen, they will need the full support from Hokie Nation.... not half support and half whining/crying about if/when our head coach should be fired.

    As for my original statement, I apologize for it and did not mean to offend anyone. I did not direct it at one specific person and didn't mean for it to be taken that way. If you (Will) would like to delete it I have no problem with that.... honestly, spending too much time on the UWS board has caused me to lose my natural filter. Sorry to whoever is/was offended.

    Go Hokies

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by nc_hokie87 View Post
    And in order for it to happen, they will need the full support from Hokie Nation.... not half support and half whining/crying about if/when our head coach should be fired.
    He further clarified that the unacceptable behavior goes both ways. There are a certain subset of posters out there who try to derail every thread into slamming people who disagree with them. A little civility is called for from both "camps."

    That said, you also need to come to terms with the fact that "support" means different things to different people. Not everyone agrees with you that unbridled optimism, positivity, and a complete lack of criticism in any form is the same thing as "support."
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Groff View Post
    He further clarified that the unacceptable behavior goes both ways. There are a certain subset of posters out there who try to derail every thread into slamming people who disagree with them. A little civility is called for from both "camps."
    Bottom line is if people stop turning every single thread or event into an attack on SG, both sides immediately become more civil. If there is no hate on our head coach, then it won't invoke a hateful response from someone like me. I agree civility is called for.... but realistically, that is going to be hard to come by unless the attacks on our coach are toned way down, because that is almost always what starts it off.

    That said, you also need to come to terms with the fact that "support" means different things to different people. Not everyone agrees with you that unbridled optimism, positivity, and a complete lack of criticism in any form is the same thing as "support."
    Unbridled optimism? Positivity? You obviously don't know me in-person.... that is why this situation frustrates me. I naturally fall into the other side of the spectrum and am definitely more negative and pessimistic when it comes to sports. That is why I have a hard time understanding the hatred towards SG.... despite how pessimistic I am that we will ever catch a break (no injuries, buzzer beaters, or snubs), or how negative I feel about our chances to win a game given all the close losses and buzzer beaters, I still support SG because of his professionalism, work ethic, school pride, and how he just does things the right way (someone suggest Bruce Pearl the other day... makes me appreciate the way Seth runs the program even more). At some point it comes down to winning, I know, but he has stuck with and continued to recruit for and build VT through all the horrible things that've happened to our bball program the past few years... the least I can do is stick with him and see what he can do once the bad luck plague has ended.
    Last edited by nc_hokie87; Mon Mar 19 2012 at 11:59 AM.

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