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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Hoke View Post
    Right. This is where the rubber meets the road with Greenberg IMO. Its hard to argue he didn't do some things to make VT competitive in the ACC ahead of time, it's just that this is the point where he has reached his ceiling.
    I'll join you in that conclusion if he fails to make the tournament at least a couple times with this group of freshmen.

    And, conveniently, that will be closer to the end of his contract so we won't take such a hit by firing him with several years left. Believe it or not, that is actually a factor that has to be taken into account in deciding to make a change, in the real world.
    SteveA

  2. #22

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    You didn't answer my question though. If Georgia hadn't won the SEC tournament that year, would you HONESTLY have a higher opinion of Greenberg?

    If your ONLY metric for evaluating a coach is the binary in-or-out, then you have to answer yes to that. And then you have to explain why something that happened on a court several hundred miles away from Greenberg five years ago, really has any affect at all on your opinion of him as a coach.

    You are the kind of person who would have said let's trade John Elway about ten years into his career because he had failed to live up to the expectations of a number one QB and win a Super Bowl.
    SteveA

  3. #23

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    No.

    But it doesn't matter -- revisionist history. It's very easy to look back in hindsight and assign a black or white answer.

    But keep in mind also, I'm not one advocating getting rid of SG anyway.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInBaltimore View Post
    I'll join you in that conclusion if he fails to make the tournament at least a couple times with this group of freshmen.

    And, conveniently, that will be closer to the end of his contract so we won't take such a hit by firing him with several years left. Believe it or not, that is actually a factor that has to be taken into account in deciding to make a change, in the real world.
    And in the real world the other lost revenues associated with fan discontent, such as loss of ticket sales, are factored into the change decision as well as his buyout amount. That said, the real advantage in waiting is to allow the new AD to hire his own guy.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Whether Seth is coach or not, the NCAA committee will still hate VT. They did in 1996, they did in the 1980s when Dell Curry played. This is not a new phenomenon. Even when we got in with a GREAT record in 1996 they put us in the 8-9 game opposite #1 overall seed Kentucky. In 1986 we somehow drew defending national champ Villanova.

    Seth has put us IN the tournament 3 times...the committee decided to screw us twice...plain and simple.
    That's absurd. I'm sorry, the whole "conspiracy" notion is just a complete canard.

    Seth has done enough to get this team on the bubble several times, but only done enough to get us in once.

    Would you accept another 9 years with one actual appearance in the tournament as long has he made the bubble several times? 18 years and two actual appearances are fine as long as we are "close" over and over again?
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  6. #26
    RapmasterAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInBaltimore View Post
    I'll join you in that conclusion if he fails to make the tournament at least a couple times with this group of freshmen.

    And, conveniently, that will be closer to the end of his contract so we won't take such a hit by firing him with several years left. Believe it or not, that is actually a factor that has to be taken into account in deciding to make a change, in the real world.
    I love that your reasonableness is getting under the skin of people.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInBaltimore View Post
    You didn't answer my question though. If Georgia hadn't won the SEC tournament that year, would you HONESTLY have a higher opinion of Greenberg?

    If your ONLY metric for evaluating a coach is the binary in-or-out, then you have to answer yes to that. And then you have to explain why something that happened on a court several hundred miles away from Greenberg five years ago, really has any affect at all on your opinion of him as a coach.

    You are the kind of person who would have said let's trade John Elway about ten years into his career because he had failed to live up to the expectations of a number one QB and win a Super Bowl.
    Saying that Tournament appearances should be the "only" metric of evaluation is just as silly as saying that actually making the thing isn't an evaluation metric at all, would you agree with that assessment?

    Like I said in that other post. Say we have another decade of "really bad luck," injuries etc. As long as we get on the bubble several times but only make it once, is that enough?

    Serious question: how many decades does a coach get before we start using actual tournament appearances as a significant part of the evaluation metrics?
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by RapmasterAC View Post
    I love that your reasonableness is getting under the skin of people.
    It doesn't seem to me like it's getting under the skin of anyone, it's just generating good discussion - which is the point of internet message boards.

    The only thing that gets under my skin is people who personally attack those that disagree with them, and people who don't actually read posts and respond to what they wish you wrote rather than what you actually wrote.

    Far too much discussion on this board is centered around things that occurs in alternate realities rather than this universe.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  9. #29

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    So even if you start Greenberg's clock the year of the dance, we're still right at that 1 bid in 6 years mark(assuming we don't win four games in four days).

    Greenberg should absolutely get a "7th" year to see if he can ratchet that up. But at some point, you have to wonder if his record here (which is consistent with his record elsewhere) is what he is.

    IMO, the goal should be to dance approximately once every three years.

  10. #30

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    You have no idea whether or not we were the team left out due to Georgia's surprise bid. There's a chance, but there are other teams that were right on the heel of that bubble too.

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