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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48zip View Post
    I got the impresion the OP was talking about the slow to average starts of each.

    Perhaps I was mistaken. And I would suggest the Independence Bowl is no different than an NIT bid.
    Yeah, and the 1994 Gator Bowl was way, way worse than an NIT bid. It was worse than a CBI bid. It sucked. It was only surpassed in suckage by the 1997 Gator Bowl bid, which we had no business getting. And the 2003 Insight bid, which I wish we had turned down.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    Yeah, and the 1994 Gator Bowl was way, way worse than an NIT bid. It was worse than a CBI bid. It sucked. It was only surpassed in suckage by the 1997 Gator Bowl bid, which we had no business getting. And the 2003 Insight bid, which I wish we had turned down.
    It's a good thing that nothing really big or important was accomplished between those two Gator bowl bids, or you would look really silly right now chastising other people for their "Intellectual Dishonesty"
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48zip View Post
    I got the impresion the OP was talking about the slow to average starts of each.
    seemed pretty clear the years he was talking about to me

    Quote Originally Posted by 48zip View Post
    And I would suggest the Independence Bowl is no different than an NIT bid.
    I agree. That's why I said "most." Don't you think that Sugar, Orange, Gator, Gator, Independence, and none beats NCAA, NIT, NIT, NIT, NIT, and none?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groff View Post
    Wow, you really stuck it to...4 of the 10 points he made.
    If you lie about 4 of every 10 things you say, that's pathetic. I guess not by your standards. But whatever.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    If you lie about 4 of every 10 things you say, that's pathetic. I guess not by your standards. But whatever.
    He's not lying, you're just disagreeing with him. #1 was maybe factually incorrect, but the other three points you refuted were differences of opinion.

    If I say that "Community" is a great television show, and you say "You're lying Community is terrible," I'm not actually lying we just have a difference of opinion. If I said "George Lopez stars as Jeff on the TV show "Community"" then I would be lying because it's factually incorrect.

    Facts and opinions are two very different things.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groff View Post
    It's a good thing that nothing really big or important was accomplished between those two Gator bowl bids, or you would look really silly right now chastising other people for their "Intellectual Dishonesty"
    Did I say that? No. I was replying to one specific point, in a very specific manner. Don't be a douche.

    Also, if the NCAA committee doesn't keep us out of the tourney in several of the last years who knows what we would have accomplished? You have no clue how close we were to not being in that 1995 Sugar Bowl which was the pinnacle of Beamer's resume until 1999 (and arguably still is given the loss in that 1999 game).

    If we don't get to the Sugar Bowl in 1995 is Beamer's resume that first 10 years that great? Are ass kickings in 1994, 1996 and 1997 bowl games really all that?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    seemed pretty clear the years he was talking about to me



    I agree. That's why I said "most." Don't you think that Sugar, Orange, Gator, Gator, Independence, and none beats NCAA, NIT, NIT, NIT, NIT, and none?
    I agree. But ask yourself this: if we don't get the Sugar Bowl bid in 1995 it looks like this:
    1993 Ind - beat Indiana
    1994 Gator - got crushed by Tenn
    1995 something (Gator maybe?) - probably win
    1996 Orange - got crushed by Neb
    1997 Gator - got embarrassed by UNC

    If Miami does not self-impose a bowl ban in 1995 we do NOT go to the Sugar Bowl. Period. And Beamer's huge accomplishment is reduced to something quite ordinary: got to some bowl games and usually got crushed, especially the only big-time bowl (196 Orange).

    If you look at it that way, which many reasonable people would do knowing the actual circumstances of both cases, then it doesn't seem so different.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Hokies View Post
    Did I say that? No. I was replying to one specific point, in a very specific manner.
    Yes you did say that, you chastised another poster for their intellectual dishonesty in this very thread.

    Don't be a douche.
    Personal attacks are completely uncalled for, I'm concerned how often people are getting away with this kind of behavior. I don't see really what attacking me personally adds to the discussion or to this board.

    Also, if the NCAA committee doesn't keep us out of the tourney in several of the last years who knows what we would have accomplished? You have no clue how close we were to not being in that 1995 Sugar Bowl which was the pinnacle of Beamer's resume until 1999 (and arguably still is given the loss in that 1999 game).

    If we don't get to the Sugar Bowl in 1995 is Beamer's resume that first 10 years that great? Are ass kickings in 1994, 1996 and 1997 bowl games really all that?
    You can make any series of "what if" scenarios and hypothetical situations to make any points you want, I prefer to discuss reality. The reality is that, over the comparison period as chosen by the original poster, Beamer had accomplished far more in the post season than Greenberg has ever even dreamed of. It's so not even close, Greenberg has not done anything that even sniffs beating Texas in the Sugar Bowl, he just hasn't. And you can create any number of alternate universes where any number of things that didn't actually happened to make any points you want.

    What if Frank Beamer was a woman and never actually played or coached football and in that same universe Seth Greenberg won 18 national championships in a row? Then, in that universe (just like all of your non-existent realities) Seth Greenberg would be the better coach who had accomplished more before his "down year." But in this real world where real stuff has really happened, it's not even comparable.
    There's a difference between a "fact" and an "opinion that you agree with."

  9. #29

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    I disagree re the Sugar Bowl. That was a big win against a name team. I think SG has accomplished comparable wins in games against UNC and Duke, both home and away.

  10. #30

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    So how do you explain Beamer's four years after his first two on probation? Especially his sixth year (2-8-1)?
    There were many Hokie fans chanting for his firing if you remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by reestuart View Post
    At least the first two. The team had just gone on probation when he was hired.
    I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather, not like the screaming passengers in his car.

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