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  1. #1

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    Message Board Myths (long)

    There’s a lot of stuff I read on this board that leave me shaking my head. I know that they are matters of opinion, but I think of them as Message Board Myths…
    1. When we start poorly it’s because we weren’t ready or aren’t playing hard. In fact, it seems to me that we are often too “ready to play”, too jacked up, that we rush shots or brick them from too much adrenaline. I find it hard to believe that these guys aren’t “ready to play” when they take the court against an ACC foe. Maybe that’s why Seth practiced them hard for an hour before the Clemson game, to get rid of some of that adrenaline?
    2. Seth is not an X’s and O’s coach. Really? He’s been coaching 30 years – do you think he doesn’t know how to design an offense or draw up plays? Isn’t it more likely that the players just aren’t executing very well – especially the younger, less experienced ones? Now I will admit that he has to be responsible for that, too. But just because they aren’t doing it doesn’t mean he isn’t teaching it. Note that the screening was much better last game, for example.
    3. Seth recruits athletes, not skilled players. Well, I’m pretty sure he takes the very best players he can get, regardless of why they are good. There are very, very few coaches who can choose what type of athlete they can get. Being in the middle of ACC country, Tech has to take some “projects”, especially bigs. Does anyone really think he bypasses “skilled” players in favor of “athletic” players?
    4. Seth “loses” players because of his “antics”. It seems to me that the coaches lose players either because they don’t play them, or the players think the coach doesn’t care about them. For example, I offer Bob Huggins and Frank Martin; they lead the world in “antics”, yet they seem to be among the most loved coaches in the game because they clearly care about their players. I don’t think Seth “loses” any players except the ones he decides to lose.
    5. The players who transfer would have been stars if they had stayed. Well, this is a matter of opinion, but Hank Thorns, Manny Adkins, etc, were not ACC starter-caliber athletes. Pretty good role players, yes, but not difference makers. May they wonderful careers at their new homes.
    6. Tech has a great basketball tradition, and many coaches could succeed here. Maybe… but college basketball is VASTLY different than the days of DeVoe and Moir. The only way a coach can succeed here is to work his butt off recruiting, develop contacts with high school coaches, and take some chances with prospects (or cheat). I’m sure there are other coaches who could do it – but not many, and maybe none better than Seth.
    7. DFS is playing better lately because he is “ready to play”. Or maybe it’s because he hasn’t been banging up against physical monsters like the Plumlees, Zeller, James, etc, in the last two games. Finally against BC he was playing against guys his own size and physique, and he had great games. Note that he had many more tip-in and open look opportunities in the last two games. Similarly…
    8. DFS is overrated and not really a top recruit. Well, when I see him I see Scottie Pippen – a guy who was around six feet when he started college, a late bloomer who was not a top player until he was a senior. I hope it won’t take him that long, but it may be 3-4 years before his body matures and he can bang with the big guys down low. But just like Jarrell Eddie and Erick Green, I’ll bet he makes huge strides by his Sophomore year.
    9. This team “chokes” down the stretch. Or, maybe, our opponents figure out and adjust to the fact that we are a perimeter team without a strong post threat or a penetrator, and they ramp up the pressure on the perimeter. Or maybe it's that, like most teams, we do not shoot as well in the last third of a game due to tired legs; teams that finish strong are usually those that bang the ball down low, and get lots of offensive rebounds and free throws. That isn’t this team, at least not this year.
    10. This whole freshman class is overrated and will not take us to a higher level. I disagree – all of these guys show the talent they were reputed to have. However, we do need a stronger post presence in the next few years, maybe Harrell or Joey VZ or a stronger Barksdale. Or maybe a new recruit. I hope so, I’m enjoying watching these young guys grow and develop, and I look forward to seeing Coach Greenberg lead them to great success.

  2. #2
    RapmasterAC's Avatar
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    It does get really old seeing some of these myths (and others recently questioned in other threads) repeated as fact over and over again.

    This has easily been the least enjoyable season on the basketball board that I can remember. It's not the fact that people can hold opinions from mine; in those cases we can talk/argue it out, and it's all good. People have the right to question the VT program or Greenberg's tenure.

    It's the people who are shockingly ignorant who seem hellbent on grabbing pitchforks and torches, and/or spreading their misery everywhere, that have made this board very hard to read. It's been like that on the football board for as long as I've been around, but it's a more recent phenomenon on the basketball board. This leads to:

    Myth #11: VT fans are special, or better than the average fan-base

  3. #3
    good stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatro View Post
    There’s a lot of stuff I read on this board that leave me shaking my head. I know that they are matters of opinion, but I think of them as Message Board Myths…
    1. When we start poorly it’s because we weren’t ready or aren’t playing hard. In fact, it seems to me that we are often too “ready to play”, too jacked up, that we rush shots or brick them from too much adrenaline. I find it hard to believe that these guys aren’t “ready to play” when they take the court against an ACC foe. Maybe that’s why Seth practiced them hard for an hour before the Clemson game, to get rid of some of that adrenaline?
    2. Seth is not an X’s and O’s coach. Really? He’s been coaching 30 years – do you think he doesn’t know how to design an offense or draw up plays? Isn’t it more likely that the players just aren’t executing very well – especially the younger, less experienced ones? Now I will admit that he has to be responsible for that, too. But just because they aren’t doing it doesn’t mean he isn’t teaching it. Note that the screening was much better last game, for example.
    3. Seth recruits athletes, not skilled players. Well, I’m pretty sure he takes the very best players he can get, regardless of why they are good. There are very, very few coaches who can choose what type of athlete they can get. Being in the middle of ACC country, Tech has to take some “projects”, especially bigs. Does anyone really think he bypasses “skilled” players in favor of “athletic” players?
    4. Seth “loses” players because of his “antics”. It seems to me that the coaches lose players either because they don’t play them, or the players think the coach doesn’t care about them. For example, I offer Bob Huggins and Frank Martin; they lead the world in “antics”, yet they seem to be among the most loved coaches in the game because they clearly care about their players. I don’t think Seth “loses” any players except the ones he decides to lose.
    5. The players who transfer would have been stars if they had stayed. Well, this is a matter of opinion, but Hank Thorns, Manny Adkins, etc, were not ACC starter-caliber athletes. Pretty good role players, yes, but not difference makers. May they wonderful careers at their new homes.
    6. Tech has a great basketball tradition, and many coaches could succeed here. Maybe… but college basketball is VASTLY different than the days of DeVoe and Moir. The only way a coach can succeed here is to work his butt off recruiting, develop contacts with high school coaches, and take some chances with prospects (or cheat). I’m sure there are other coaches who could do it – but not many, and maybe none better than Seth.
    7. DFS is playing better lately because he is “ready to play”. Or maybe it’s because he hasn’t been banging up against physical monsters like the Plumlees, Zeller, James, etc, in the last two games. Finally against BC he was playing against guys his own size and physique, and he had great games. Note that he had many more tip-in and open look opportunities in the last two games. Similarly…
    8. DFS is overrated and not really a top recruit. Well, when I see him I see Scottie Pippen – a guy who was around six feet when he started college, a late bloomer who was not a top player until he was a senior. I hope it won’t take him that long, but it may be 3-4 years before his body matures and he can bang with the big guys down low. But just like Jarrell Eddie and Erick Green, I’ll bet he makes huge strides by his Sophomore year.
    9. This team “chokes” down the stretch. Or, maybe, our opponents figure out and adjust to the fact that we are a perimeter team without a strong post threat or a penetrator, and they ramp up the pressure on the perimeter. Or maybe it's that, like most teams, we do not shoot as well in the last third of a game due to tired legs; teams that finish strong are usually those that bang the ball down low, and get lots of offensive rebounds and free throws. That isn’t this team, at least not this year.
    10. This whole freshman class is overrated and will not take us to a higher level. I disagree – all of these guys show the talent they were reputed to have. However, we do need a stronger post presence in the next few years, maybe Harrell or Joey VZ or a stronger Barksdale. Or maybe a new recruit. I hope so, I’m enjoying watching these young guys grow and develop, and I look forward to seeing Coach Greenberg lead them to great success.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatro View Post
    There’s a lot of stuff I read on this board that leave me shaking my head. I know that they are matters of opinion, but I think of them as Message Board Myths…
    1. When we start poorly it’s because we weren’t ready or aren’t playing hard. In fact, it seems to me that we are often too “ready to play”, too jacked up, that we rush shots or brick them from too much adrenaline. I find it hard to believe that these guys aren’t “ready to play” when they take the court against an ACC foe. Maybe that’s why Seth practiced them hard for an hour before the Clemson game, to get rid of some of that adrenaline?
    2. Seth is not an X’s and O’s coach. Really? He’s been coaching 30 years – do you think he doesn’t know how to design an offense or draw up plays? Isn’t it more likely that the players just aren’t executing very well – especially the younger, less experienced ones? Now I will admit that he has to be responsible for that, too. But just because they aren’t doing it doesn’t mean he isn’t teaching it. Note that the screening was much better last game, for example.
    3. Seth recruits athletes, not skilled players. Well, I’m pretty sure he takes the very best players he can get, regardless of why they are good. There are very, very few coaches who can choose what type of athlete they can get. Being in the middle of ACC country, Tech has to take some “projects”, especially bigs. Does anyone really think he bypasses “skilled” players in favor of “athletic” players?
    4. Seth “loses” players because of his “antics”. It seems to me that the coaches lose players either because they don’t play them, or the players think the coach doesn’t care about them. For example, I offer Bob Huggins and Frank Martin; they lead the world in “antics”, yet they seem to be among the most loved coaches in the game because they clearly care about their players. I don’t think Seth “loses” any players except the ones he decides to lose.
    5. The players who transfer would have been stars if they had stayed. Well, this is a matter of opinion, but Hank Thorns, Manny Adkins, etc, were not ACC starter-caliber athletes. Pretty good role players, yes, but not difference makers. May they wonderful careers at their new homes.
    6. Tech has a great basketball tradition, and many coaches could succeed here. Maybe… but college basketball is VASTLY different than the days of DeVoe and Moir. The only way a coach can succeed here is to work his butt off recruiting, develop contacts with high school coaches, and take some chances with prospects (or cheat). I’m sure there are other coaches who could do it – but not many, and maybe none better than Seth.
    7. DFS is playing better lately because he is “ready to play”. Or maybe it’s because he hasn’t been banging up against physical monsters like the Plumlees, Zeller, James, etc, in the last two games. Finally against BC he was playing against guys his own size and physique, and he had great games. Note that he had many more tip-in and open look opportunities in the last two games. Similarly…
    8. DFS is overrated and not really a top recruit. Well, when I see him I see Scottie Pippen – a guy who was around six feet when he started college, a late bloomer who was not a top player until he was a senior. I hope it won’t take him that long, but it may be 3-4 years before his body matures and he can bang with the big guys down low. But just like Jarrell Eddie and Erick Green, I’ll bet he makes huge strides by his Sophomore year.
    9. This team “chokes” down the stretch. Or, maybe, our opponents figure out and adjust to the fact that we are a perimeter team without a strong post threat or a penetrator, and they ramp up the pressure on the perimeter. Or maybe it's that, like most teams, we do not shoot as well in the last third of a game due to tired legs; teams that finish strong are usually those that bang the ball down low, and get lots of offensive rebounds and free throws. That isn’t this team, at least not this year.
    10. This whole freshman class is overrated and will not take us to a higher level. I disagree – all of these guys show the talent they were reputed to have. However, we do need a stronger post presence in the next few years, maybe Harrell or Joey VZ or a stronger Barksdale. Or maybe a new recruit. I hope so, I’m enjoying watching these young guys grow and develop, and I look forward to seeing Coach Greenberg lead them to great success.
    Bravo, very nicely done Squatro...I would add

    1. Why don't we recruit a top notch big man? Well, because they are few and far between out there and there are dozens of more desirable destinations to take their talents. At least for the polished low post players, VT isn't a prime destination. I can almost guarentee you CSG is spanning the globe for big men. The kid at Maryland would have been nice but...

    2. These freshman aren't as good as advertised...Show me some that are? I bet the number of freshman who are making a big difference in CBB can be listed in single digits. You'll have a few more come on in the last few weeks of the season and post season and "get it". CBB and its coaches haven't changed much, although high school recruits have as a result of the influence of AAU ball. CBB coaches still demand their players to work hard, follow orders, and be personally responsible for their actions and decisions. I'm not sure that kind of discipline is much of a priority around the AAU circuit. It's more of a "showcase". I've seen things from this freshman class that give me hope. In fact, considering how many punches they've taken to the chin, I'm impressed they aren't completely beaten down. You can see they have game...these last few weeks will go a long way to determining how much heart they have.

    Nice post again...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by RapmasterAC View Post
    It does get really old seeing some of these myths (and others recently questioned in other threads) repeated as fact over and over again.

    This has easily been the least enjoyable season on the basketball board that I can remember. It's not the fact that people can hold opinions from mine; in those cases we can talk/argue it out, and it's all good. People have the right to question the VT program or Greenberg's tenure.

    It's the people who are shockingly ignorant who seem hellbent on grabbing pitchforks and torches, and/or spreading their misery everywhere, that have made this board very hard to read. It's been like that on the football board for as long as I've been around, but it's a more recent phenomenon on the basketball board. This leads to:

    Myth #11: VT fans are special, or better than the average fan-base

    I swear many of these posters have been watching a different program than I the last 6-7 years

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by RapmasterAC View Post
    It does get really old seeing some of these myths (and others recently questioned in other threads) repeated as fact over and over again.

    This has easily been the least enjoyable season on the basketball board that I can remember. It's not the fact that people can hold opinions from mine; in those cases we can talk/argue it out, and it's all good. People have the right to question the VT program or Greenberg's tenure.

    It's the people who are shockingly ignorant who seem hellbent on grabbing pitchforks and torches, and/or spreading their misery everywhere, that have made this board very hard to read. It's been like that on the football board for as long as I've been around, but it's a more recent phenomenon on the basketball board. This leads to:

    Myth #11: VT fans are special, or better than the average fan-base
    Totally agree...people have the right to question anything they want. It's just the broken record attitude of some, even when presented with sound logic that discounts their opinions. I'm also the kind of person that, even if I had hateful things to say about a coach or player, wouldn't post it on my teams message board. I don't see the point. So, I guess I just don't really understand the negative fan attitude.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Hokie View Post
    I swear many of these posters have been watching a different program than I the last 6-7 years
    I feel the same way. This season is the worst... I feel like anytime I visit the board after a game, that I watched something entirely different than the majority of the posters who are complaining, crying, and insulting. Worst of all, this has been happening after every win, too.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatro View Post
    There’s a lot of stuff I read on this board that leave me shaking my head. I know that they are matters of opinion, but I think of them as Message Board Myths…
    1. When we start poorly it’s because we weren’t ready or aren’t playing hard. In fact, it seems to me that we are often too “ready to play”, too jacked up, that we rush shots or brick them from too much adrenaline. I find it hard to believe that these guys aren’t “ready to play” when they take the court against an ACC foe. Maybe that’s why Seth practiced them hard for an hour before the Clemson game, to get rid of some of that adrenaline?
    2. Seth is not an X’s and O’s coach. Really? He’s been coaching 30 years – do you think he doesn’t know how to design an offense or draw up plays? Isn’t it more likely that the players just aren’t executing very well – especially the younger, less experienced ones? Now I will admit that he has to be responsible for that, too. But just because they aren’t doing it doesn’t mean he isn’t teaching it. Note that the screening was much better last game, for example.
    3. Seth recruits athletes, not skilled players. Well, I’m pretty sure he takes the very best players he can get, regardless of why they are good. There are very, very few coaches who can choose what type of athlete they can get. Being in the middle of ACC country, Tech has to take some “projects”, especially bigs. Does anyone really think he bypasses “skilled” players in favor of “athletic” players?
    4. Seth “loses” players because of his “antics”. It seems to me that the coaches lose players either because they don’t play them, or the players think the coach doesn’t care about them. For example, I offer Bob Huggins and Frank Martin; they lead the world in “antics”, yet they seem to be among the most loved coaches in the game because they clearly care about their players. I don’t think Seth “loses” any players except the ones he decides to lose.
    5. The players who transfer would have been stars if they had stayed. Well, this is a matter of opinion, but Hank Thorns, Manny Adkins, etc, were not ACC starter-caliber athletes. Pretty good role players, yes, but not difference makers. May they wonderful careers at their new homes.
    6. Tech has a great basketball tradition, and many coaches could succeed here. Maybe… but college basketball is VASTLY different than the days of DeVoe and Moir. The only way a coach can succeed here is to work his butt off recruiting, develop contacts with high school coaches, and take some chances with prospects (or cheat). I’m sure there are other coaches who could do it – but not many, and maybe none better than Seth.
    7. DFS is playing better lately because he is “ready to play”. Or maybe it’s because he hasn’t been banging up against physical monsters like the Plumlees, Zeller, James, etc, in the last two games. Finally against BC he was playing against guys his own size and physique, and he had great games. Note that he had many more tip-in and open look opportunities in the last two games. Similarly…
    8. DFS is overrated and not really a top recruit. Well, when I see him I see Scottie Pippen – a guy who was around six feet when he started college, a late bloomer who was not a top player until he was a senior. I hope it won’t take him that long, but it may be 3-4 years before his body matures and he can bang with the big guys down low. But just like Jarrell Eddie and Erick Green, I’ll bet he makes huge strides by his Sophomore year.
    9. This team “chokes” down the stretch. Or, maybe, our opponents figure out and adjust to the fact that we are a perimeter team without a strong post threat or a penetrator, and they ramp up the pressure on the perimeter. Or maybe it's that, like most teams, we do not shoot as well in the last third of a game due to tired legs; teams that finish strong are usually those that bang the ball down low, and get lots of offensive rebounds and free throws. That isn’t this team, at least not this year.
    10. This whole freshman class is overrated and will not take us to a higher level. I disagree – all of these guys show the talent they were reputed to have. However, we do need a stronger post presence in the next few years, maybe Harrell or Joey VZ or a stronger Barksdale. Or maybe a new recruit. I hope so, I’m enjoying watching these young guys grow and develop, and I look forward to seeing Coach Greenberg lead them to great success.
    POTD or season. Should be a must read. Thank you.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by RapmasterAC View Post

    Myth #11: VT fans are special, or better than the average fan-base
    Sadly, I agree, especially in Basketball. The fans need to rock the Cassell more if they hope to ever catch up with the UNC and Duke's of this league. Good players want to play for good crowds. It's the old chicken vs egg question. Except in this case it's winning brings crowds vs crowd brings winners. We have potential w/this young team and I have high hopes for the 2 coming in next year. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that SG can pull a big man that can play. If we could get more help from the crowd, maybe one day we'll be a destination spot for all players.

  10. #10

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    Excellent post.

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