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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Hoke View Post
    What should this program aspire to be?
    At a BARE MINIMUM, this program should be top 2 in the state of VA. Over the past 8 years, I'd say it's been about 6th.

    Under no circumstances, EVER, should outsiders look at the state of Virginia and think that George Mason, Old Dominion, Richmond, and Virginia Commonwealth have better programs than VT. And right now, that considering the tournament success from all of those teams during the Seth era, that's exactly what outsiders should think. That should NEVER be true; it should always be VT and UVA as the only 2 programs people discuss as the best in the state.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiekev 2k4 View Post
    "Better than the Ricky Stokes era."

    Because, "It's too hard to win at VT." And, "We have no history of tradition."

    Or, for those of us that are more ambitious and aspire to be more than mediocre, I'd say this program could be the equivalent of Purdue/Illinois (also engineering schools in small towns): solid teams, generally hovering near the top 25, and making the tourney more often than not.
    Your continual portrayal of anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you as not believing VT has a chance to be successful or that those people aren't hopeful VT could be a top level program is juvenile. It's seriously like a child who covers his ears in an argument.

    Just because you don't think VT has as many obstacles as others do doesn't make you more ambitious and the characterization that other posters are aspiring to be mediocre is what makes this board unreadable at times.

    I don't mean to just pick on you because you're far from the worst offender but those kind of generalizations are doing nothing more than creating a straw man for you and others to rail against.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Hoke View Post
    During our run of losses over recent weeks I've seen a lot of posts and opinions given and questions about what the expectation of Virginia Tech basketball should be. Especially with comments such as players not willing to come to Blacksburg since it is remote, or lack of basketball tradition, so called "ceilings". I thought it would make an interesting thread to see what people really think about that, what the consensus may be. Also, since Cvillehoops appears to be very knowledgable of the game and his opinions most generally accepted/respected on this board, am very interested in his opinion. I've said before I think we can be better but I'll leave it at that for now since I'm just really wanting to see what people think on their own rather than having them commenting on mine. Again,just trying to see if there is one consensus opinion that stands out to be stronger than others.
    I'd say that VT should aspire to be a program that can get to 20 wins more often than not. To compete across the ACC and always be a tough out and to finish in the top half of the league in at least half of the seasons that a player is here. A program that can compete with most teams in the league for recruits (UVa, State, Wake, Clemson) and ultimately a program with national recognition and a brand.

    Now it would be easy to say "make the NCAA tournament almost every year" or some crap like that but almost no one in the ACC is doing that as it is and the majority of the programs in the ACC enjoy more support, publicity and have more history than VT can offer. I'd consider making the NCAA tournament 2 times for every incoming recruit as a HUGE HUGE success but I think finishing in the top half of the ACC and being a formidable team across the schedule and on the recruiting trail is a very strong place for VT to be.

  4. #14

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    That's a very good one I agree with. Do that and we'll be in more NCAA tournaments. Plus, there's no excuse for a program with our resources to be playing second (or sixth) fiddle to those teams. And I also believe we need to prove we are reaching that goal by playing them OOC regularly and beating them, to leave nothing for second guessing.

  5. #15
    Hubman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cvillehoops13 View Post
    I'd say that VT should aspire to be a program that can get to 20 wins more often than not. To compete across the ACC and always be a tough out and to finish in the top half of the league in at least half of the seasons that a player is here. A program that can compete with most teams in the league for recruits (UVa, State, Wake, Clemson) and ultimately a program with national recognition and a brand.

    Now it would be easy to say "make the NCAA tournament almost every year" or some crap like that but almost no one in the ACC is doing that as it is and the majority of the programs in the ACC enjoy more support, publicity and have more history than VT can offer. I'd consider making the NCAA tournament 2 times for every incoming recruit as a HUGE HUGE success but I think finishing in the top half of the ACC and being a formidable team across the schedule and on the recruiting trail is a very strong place for VT to be.
    So other than not having national recognition and a brand, VT has reached its basketball potential?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    So other than not having national recognition and a brand, VT has reached its basketball potential?
    No, my NCAA tournament numbers obviously haven't been met and I don't see "potential" as being a short term view. If VT gets a coach who is regularly winning 20 games a year and finishing in the top half of the ACC over a long period of time then yes, but doing it for a few years? That isn't the same thing. There's an assumption in there that if you do those things there will be some very special years in there where you've got an outside shot to win the league and you should be making NCAA tournaments.

    I'm not saying VT couldn't do better, I was just trying to give what I see as a very realistic measuring stick for success for this program.

    That isn't to say that if things fall perfect VT couldn't be a top-25 team every year and make final fours or whatever, but setting that out there also isn't realistic imo - but it certainly could happen.

  7. #17
    FlossEmVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cvillehoops13 View Post

    ...or some crap like that...
    ??

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cvillehoops13 View Post
    Your continual portrayal of anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you as not believing VT has a chance to be successful or that those people aren't hopeful VT could be a top level program is juvenile. It's seriously like a child who covers his ears in an argument.
    There is no other way to look at the counter-point to my argument, because the counter-point is ridiculous. You say that people with that mentality are not aspiring to be mediocre, but I just don't see how it could be construed any other way.

    I have read the opposing sides of my argument, and I feel that that viewpoint is "loser talk," pure and simple. Calling my quote "juvenile" seems pretty crazy to me -- I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous it sounds when our fans handicap this program with mediocre expectations, just because of geography or lack of history.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Hoke View Post
    During our run of losses over recent weeks I've seen a lot of posts and opinions given and questions about what the expectation of Virginia Tech basketball should be. Especially with comments such as players not willing to come to Blacksburg since it is remote, or lack of basketball tradition, so called "ceilings". I thought it would make an interesting thread to see what people really think about that, what the consensus may be. Also, since Cvillehoops appears to be very knowledgable of the game and his opinions most generally accepted/respected on this board, am very interested in his opinion. I've said before I think we can be better but I'll leave it at that for now since I'm just really wanting to see what people think on their own rather than having them commenting on mine. Again,just trying to see if there is one consensus opinion that stands out to be stronger than others.
    Free
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    ~Kilgore Trout

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FlossEmVT View Post
    ??
    Trying to be realistic, if we're just throwing out fantasies why not say "make the final four every other year" ?

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