Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 41
  1. #1

    Join Date
    October 17, 2008
    Posts
    961

    Just a bit of perspective in all this debate about Seth

    I'm just now catching up on what everyone has written since the BC loss, and there seems a bit of generational gap on the program. It seems to me younger Hokies are saying it doesn't matter what we did pre-1995 (i saw one post that said "irrelevant, Grandpa") and I saw a few more than don't seem to take into account VT's basketball history. Oddly enough, the time period I want to describe also heavily affects the attitude you see over on the football board when someone suggests Frank needs to make major changes or retire.

    If you watched VT basketball from 1976 until 1986, during that time the Hokies made the NCAA in 1976 (having a big lead at one point before losing to Western Michigan), 1979 (won a game, then lost to Larry Bird and Indiana State), 1980 (won a game, then lost to Indiana), 1985 and 1986. So that's five big dances in 10 years when a lot less teams made the field and VT wasn't in a major conference like the ACC. If you're from that era, you probably struggle with why can't VT make the NCAAs more than once a decade given ACC membership and a lot more teams being allowed in the field.

    At the same time, that was the era VT was losing in football to the likes of Richmond, William and Mary, etc. and the thought of going to a bowl was a pipe dream. Frank changed all that and to a lot of people, it's frustrating we can't get over the hump in big games, but we sure as heck don't want to go back to 5-6, never being on TV and losing to VMI. To this same group, there's nothing that bad to regress to in basketball. We're doing far worse (vs. NCAA's) now than we were back in the day.

    I can go either way on the Seth debate. I find him to be a standup guy who I'm proud to see associated with the program, yet also understand you get paid on results, not image. But history does matter. Ultimately, I'm going to pull for the Hokies to win the rest of their games, then wait to have an opinion until after the final record is in the books. Even the biggest critic would agree that no one would ever want to make a change during a season...

  2. #2
    Pylons's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25, 2005
    Posts
    7,161
    Quote Originally Posted by AshburnFarmHokie View Post
    Even the biggest critic would agree that no one would ever want to make a change during a season...
    Really? Why?

    This is not to say that I think a change is warranted this season...I don't.

    But, let's say recent history was bad and Seth really was on a hot seat this season. If we started 0-8 in the ACC, why wouldn't you be ready to make a change? If a team had no post-season hopes, why wouldn't you be ready to get a jump on everyone else shopping for the next great coach?

  3. #3

    Join Date
    October 21, 1999
    Posts
    5,247
    If you change Greenberg, then you need to change Jim Weaver. Three strikes on basket ball: Girls , Ricky Stokes.

    Time for Weaver to go to special projects

  4. #4
    Pylons's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25, 2005
    Posts
    7,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Hokie View Post
    If you change Greenberg, then you need to change Jim Weaver. Three strikes on basket ball: Girls , Ricky Stokes.

    Time for Weaver to go to special projects
    Not necessarily.

    Again, I said I wouldn't do anything this year.

    But let's say Weaver decides to move to a new coach next year. Seth got 10 years and took VT from no one, to perennial bubble team. Why is that a strike? Why is it not ok to decide that Greenberg came in, performed a turnaround, hit a ceiling, and that you need someone else to make further progress?

  5. #5
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 05, 2001
    Location
    3659′36″N 7813′30″W
    Posts
    3,496
    Yup, things were different back in the "old days." The NCAA Tournament had 32 teams in 1976, 40 teams in 1979, 48 teams in 1980, and had 64 teams in 1985 and 1986. Tech lost in the 1st round to Philly schools (Villanova and Temple) during the Dell Curry era. The Metro wasn't the ACC but it wasn't a bad conference with Louisville and Memphis. Louisville won it all 1986 beating Duke and Memphis State made the Final 4 (The Big East Invitational LOL) in 1985 with Keith Lee. Tech won the Metro Tourney in 1979 over FSU and lost to Memphis State in 1984. FSU and Tulane had some good teams too. I agree with you on football, but it wasn't quite a pipe dream to make a bowl from 1976-1986. Tech went 3 times from 1980-1986 with Bill Dooley, winning 1 of the 3. Back then, there weren't as many bowls and Tech had winning records all of those years and would've made a bowl nowadays with 6-5, 7-4, 8-3 records. Dooley lost some games that he shouldn't have like Richmond, but Beamer has lost his share of games to teams like Temple and JMU that he should've beaten easily. Being in the Big East and ACC has helped Tech's football and basketball programs. Beamer is a better coach than Dooley or Jimmy Sharp. Is Seth Greenberg a better coach than Don DeVoe or Charlie Moir? At this point IMHO, I would say no. But like you, I will support this team and hope things get better. I think Seth will have a better team in 2013.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    December 22, 2002
    Posts
    4,369
    VT has less bball "history" than nearly every major conference team. Look it up. VT is certainly in the bottom 10-15%.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    December 22, 2002
    Posts
    4,369
    Additionaly, winning two games to get to the final 8 ONE TIME IN HISTORY proves VT rarely did anything of significance when there. Anyhow, even if SG had taken VT to the big dance 2-3 more times, which I think shoulda been the case BTW, VT would rank in the bottom 10% of the 70 major conference teams. You are right in that the relative lack of success of VT fball made any decent VT bball team/win seem like a Super Bowl victory. I myself remember VT being in the NIT, and bBurg going crazy. That was a HUGE DEAL back then, because nothing much else ever went down in VT athletics.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    Additionaly, winning two games to get to the final 8 ONE TIME IN HISTORY proves VT rarely did anything of significance when there. Anyhow, even if SG had taken VT to the big dance 2-3 more times, which I think shoulda been the case BTW, VT would rank in the bottom 10% of the 70 major conference teams. You are right in that the relative lack of success of VT fball made any decent VT bball team/win seem like a Super Bowl victory. I myself remember VT being in the NIT, and bBurg going crazy. That was a HUGE DEAL back then, because nothing much else ever went down in VT athletics.
    In recent history, VT ranks waaaaaaaaaay down near the bottom. I did an article for TSL right before we moved to the ACC that showed we were dead last in the BCS conference in terms of postseason play over the previous, I believe, 20 seasons. We've jumped a bit recently, but still down near the bottom.

  9. #9
    RapmasterAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 09, 2003
    Location
    Topic View
    Posts
    10,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Hokie 95 View Post
    In recent history, VT ranks waaaaaaaaaay down near the bottom. I did an article for TSL right before we moved to the ACC that showed we were dead last in the BCS conference in terms of postseason play over the previous, I believe, 20 seasons. We've jumped a bit recently, but still down near the bottom.
    In terms of NCAA bids, we're 2nd worst in the ACC, ahead of Miami somehow (edit: Miami rejoined D-I ball in 1985). Nationally, here are the teams that have the same number of NCAA bids (8):

    Auburn
    Bradley
    Colorado State
    Montana
    Morehead State
    Pacific
    Rhode Island
    South Alabama
    South Carolina
    Wichita State
    Last edited by RapmasterAC; Mon Jan 16 2012 at 12:34 AM.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    December 22, 2002
    Posts
    4,369
    Clearly an example of remembering things as being better than they were.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •