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  1. #31

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    I've beaten this to death, so I will leave you with this question.
    What do we have to lose? more games? will we possibly win more than eight or 10 a year with him in the lineup?
    Last edited by hokiepro; Fri Jan 17 2014 at 09:38 AM.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    I've beaten this to death, so I will leave you with this question.
    What do we have to lose? more games? will we possibly win more than eight or 10 a year with him in the lineup?
    Depends on who "we" is...If by "we" you mean "you", as a fan...then YOU have absolutely nothing to lose. Pretty easy decision there.

    But if by "we" you mean "any coach in America", the answer is "their job, their profession, their homes"...scholarships are precious...you don't go gambling with scholarships just because a local kid scores a ton of points

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    The game is devoid of bball players who can put the ball in the BASKET.
    That's simply not true

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    The only reason Tanner isn't being recruited by more teams is he hasn't sold his soul to an AAU coach
    Again, not true...Caleb isn't being recruited by D1's because of a lack of size (don't confuse 'height' with 'size'), lack of lateral agaility, lack of strength and a concern among coaches that he can't handle the ball against bigger, stronger guards...no coach will not recruit a kid because he didn't play AAU

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Any coach in the ODAC who thinks he wouldn't be a great player for their school is an idiot and coaching D3 for a reason.
    "coaching D3 for a reason"? you mean like Shaka Smart, John Bellein, Bob Huggins, Greg Marshall and (the big reason behind VCU's success) Mike Rhodes? All D3 coaches, and most were D3 players themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Games would be a lot more fun to watch with guys who could make shots and have a clue how to move without the ball and get open (cough NOT Jarrell Eddie cough). Believe me, Caleb Tanner would've moved around and gotten more than 6 shots vs Clemson last night...and would've made more than 1.
    You'd take Caleb Tanner over Jarrell Eddie? You would be joined by zero coaches at any level in college...

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    That statement I just made is just as true as saying "Tanner is not an ACC caliber Guard". How would I or you know without seeing him in an ACC game?
    Well...I would know because it's my job to spend 80+ hours per week evaluating, coaching, recruiting and improving college athletes/prospects. I don't need to see him in an ACC game, just as much as I don't need to see Robert Krabbendam in an NBA game to know he doesn't belong

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    ACC "experts" and coaches thought Steph Curry wasn't an ACC caliber guard either.
    the same "experts" knew Curry as definitely a D1 prospect though...no one questioned that

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    We're playing WILL JOHNSTON in ACC games...Caleb Tanner is WAY, WAY, WAY better than Will Johnston will ever dream of being. Aren't we in the position where "reaching" when a scholie is available should be worth a shot?
    I would take issue with the argument that he's better than Will Johnston, but regardless Will is a walk-on. I don't think any coach would turn down Caleb as a walk-on. And no, we aren't in that position. We are actually in a position that is the complete opposite. We have to use all schollies on players VT thinks are sure-fire players who can help RIGHT AWAY, especially at the guard spots. You can take chances on bigs, because at the end of the day they're still big...

    By the way, before Will Johnston was offered a spot to walk-on at VT, he was set to attend a school in...wait for it...the ODAC

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Keaton Page was 5'10 and started 4 yrs at OK St..Tanner's just as good a shooter, and he's 6'1"+
    Keaton Page, and anyone else who was his size, is quick as lightning. And he is strong enough to defend bigger guards. Other smaller guards are so good at handling the ball that they can, to some extent, negate their deficiencies defensively

    Caleb is neither of those...

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    He comes here, 1) he won't transfer
    name 1 player VT is recruiting you can say for certain will transfer...

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    I mean what are we doing with Marquis Rankin's scholie anyway. Watch Tanner's JUNIOR highlights when he ONLY averaged around 33 instead of 43 he's averaging this year...I don't care who he's playing against...Rankin was NEVER that good.
    I would assume they are recruiting other guards they feel can fill the void left by Rankin and improve their current squad...Rankin is better than Caleb (it's absurd I even need to clarify that fact)...that's just a silly comparison...Rankin had offers from multiple ACC teams

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Another point about Rowsey...he's on track to be Big South Rookie of yr averaging 16.3 ppg for UNCa. Seth Curry played in the same conference as a fr and averaged 20.2, then transferred and averaged 17 at Duke.
    Curry played in the SoCon, a much better conference than the Big South...

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    I think where our program is right now, he's worth the risk to take because he will be a 4 yr player who at least will give us a scoring threat depth wise at worst
    Every player who has ever been through the program is seen initially as a "4 yr player"...no coach goes in thinking a kid will transfer...no kid goes a school thinking he will transfer...Caleb doesn't have some advantage over other kids being recruited by saying he won't transfer....literally every other kid in America is saying the exact same thing

    Listen....Caleb is a VERY talented kid...super super talented....but there are THOUSANDS of very talented kids out there who don't make it to D1 for a wide variety of reasons. They go on to play at lower levels and have great careers. Many wind up developing well and make it overseas and, in rare cases, to the NBA D-League or the NBA itself.

    Caleb may wind up with a D1 offer if enough schools miss out on prospects in the late signing period. But don't look for him to see the floor, unless he goes to a school with the right situation late in his college career. Or he can go to a lower level, develop and become a star down the road. Zero shame in doing that

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    Depends on who "we" is...If by "we" you mean "you", as a fan...then YOU have absolutely nothing to lose. Pretty easy decision there.

    But if by "we" you mean "any coach in America", the answer is "their job, their profession, their homes"...scholarships are precious...you don't go gambling with scholarships just because a local kid scores a ton of points



    That's simply not true



    Again, not true...Caleb isn't being recruited by D1's because of a lack of size (don't confuse 'height' with 'size'), lack of lateral agaility, lack of strength and a concern among coaches that he can't handle the ball against bigger, stronger guards...no coach will not recruit a kid because he didn't play AAU



    "coaching D3 for a reason"? you mean like Shaka Smart, John Bellein, Bob Huggins, Greg Marshall and (the big reason behind VCU's success) Mike Rhodes? All D3 coaches, and most were D3 players themselves.

    None of whom are D3 now. If they were coaching at D3 now, they'd LOVE to have Tanner


    You'd take Caleb Tanner over Jarrell Eddie? You would be joined by zero coaches at any level in college...

    Didn't say that. Said Tanner would've scored more than 3 pts if he was playing the minutes Eddie did vs Clemson, because Tanner is smarter, tougher mentally and plays harder and WORKS harder to get shots....Tanner faces double teams nightly. Eddie stands in one place as his defender stands next to him.

    Well...I would know because it's my job to spend 80+ hours per week evaluating, coaching, recruiting and improving college athletes/prospects. I don't need to see him in an ACC game, just as much as I don't need to see Robert Krabbendam in an NBA game to know he doesn't belong



    the same "experts" knew Curry as definitely a D1 prospect though...no one questioned that



    I would take issue with the argument that he's better than Will Johnston, but regardless Will is a walk-on. I don't think any coach would turn down Caleb as a walk-on. And no, we aren't in that position. We are actually in a position that is the complete opposite. We have to use all schollies on players VT thinks are sure-fire players who can help RIGHT AWAY, especially at the guard spots. You can take chances on bigs, because at the end of the day they're still big...

    By the way, before Will Johnston was offered a spot to walk-on at VT, he was set to attend a school in...wait for it...the ODAC

    Will Johnston played at Midlothian...who stunk...and I bet he didn't average half what Tanner does

    Keaton Page, and anyone else who was his size, is quick as lightning. And he is strong enough to defend bigger guards. Other smaller guards are so good at handling the ball that they can, to some extent, negate their deficiencies defensively

    Caleb is neither of those...

    Caleb has a much quicker shot release than anyone on VTs team now...it's low, but very quick...and he's always out-running guys up and down the floor...he's not quick twitch explosive, but he's smoother than most and uses change of pace and bball IQ to get open

    name 1 player VT is recruiting you can say for certain will transfer...

    Anyone not local who JJ benches for an inferior player because JJ can't let go of a mistake the player makes

    I would assume they are recruiting other guards they feel can fill the void left by Rankin and improve their current squad...Rankin is better than Caleb (it's absurd I even need to clarify that fact)...that's just a silly comparison...Rankin had offers from multiple ACC teams

    Rankin isn't better than Caleb...that's a fact...because Rankin is not playing bball anymore

    Curry played in the SoCon, a much better conference than the Big South...

    Seth Curry as was clearly stated played for Liberty in the Big South...I'm comparing Caleb more to Seth than Steph...I'm not stupid, Caleb is way more similar to Seth than Steph

    Every player who has ever been through the program is seen initially as a "4 yr player"...no coach goes in thinking a kid will transfer...no kid goes a school thinking he will transfer...Caleb doesn't have some advantage over other kids being recruited by saying he won't transfer....literally every other kid in America is saying the exact same thing

    Listen....Caleb is a VERY talented kid...super super talented....but there are THOUSANDS of very talented kids out there who don't make it to D1 for a wide variety of reasons. They go on to play at lower levels and have great careers. Many wind up developing well and make it overseas and, in rare cases, to the NBA D-League or the NBA itself.

    Caleb may wind up with a D1 offer if enough schools miss out on prospects in the late signing period. But don't look for him to see the floor, unless he goes to a school with the right situation late in his college career. Or he can go to a lower level, develop and become a star down the road. Zero shame in doing that
    We lost to USC-U and UNCG...right now we are lower level. I want him to go to Hargrave and test his ability vs bigger, faster players. Then he'll know whether he's better off in Big South or ACC. Longwood would be better instantly with him, for example.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehard hokie View Post
    good info, but i can't help but think of stephen curry every time i hear something about a high school shooter being too short, too slow, etc. Isn't this pretty much what they were saying about steph coming out of high school?
    exactly!

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTChip View Post
    exactly!
    Same conversation was had about why we didn't offer Andrew Rowsey last yr. Well he just dropped 35 pts on Charleston Southern leading UNCA to a win. He was averaging 16 ppg, probably going to be between he and QJ Peterson of VMI for Rookie of yr in Big South. Sure woulda been a nice replacement for Rankin

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Same conversation was had about why we didn't offer Andrew Rowsey last yr. Well he just dropped 35 pts on Charleston Southern leading UNCA to a win. He was averaging 16 ppg, probably going to be between he and QJ Peterson of VMI for Rookie of yr in Big South. Sure woulda been a nice replacement for Rankin
    What do you need to hear to drop it or be satisfied? Posters have given their evaluation of the players and related that to how they fit in different levels of competition. Also, the last sentence is completely disingenuous since there was no reason for a replacement for Rankin. Rankin is a Junior this season and there are other young guards on the team. That position was not the primary need to be looking for going into this season.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCU_Hokie View Post
    What do you need to hear to drop it or be satisfied? Posters have given their evaluation of the players and related that to how they fit in different levels of competition. Also, the last sentence is completely disingenuous since there was no reason for a replacement for Rankin. Rankin is a Junior this season and there are other young guards on the team. That position was not the primary need to be looking for going into this season.
    The comment regarding Rankin has to do with recognizing hard workers who are dependable vs those with d1 Athletic ability. I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why a guy who could score more pts in VA in a HS career EVER isn't even being considered by a lot of D1 schools that aren't successful currently. The question has ALWAYS been...if you can't get the top recruits, why not fill in your roster with guys who have great skill who MAY develop into great players. It's more about recruiting philosophy than Tanner or Rowsey...they just happened to be local examples that we don't even seem to show the least interest in when year after yr we have transfers, suspensions, guys not really caring about basketball. That's the whole point.
    These guys might be right. I hope he goes tonHargrave and proves he needs a shot. I really hope we don't see him hit a game winning 3 for VMI, Radford, Liberty or the like in Cassell vs us in the next few years, because we've been losing to teams with guys like Tanner for the last decade
    Last edited by hokiepro; Sun Jan 19 2014 at 02:40 PM.

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