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  1. #1
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    NCAA proposal to the P5

    Some excerpts:
    "The document discusses a number of areas where the biggest leagues could have more autonomy. They include:

    Providing additional aid to meet athletes' full cost of attendance and other "enhanced benefits" to support students' needs.

    Offering "lifetime opportunity" funds for the undergraduate education of current and former athletes.

    Ensuring that players' health and safety needs remained top priorities.

    Creating athletics "dead periods" for athletes to gain access to opportunities outside of sports.

    Redefining the rules governing agents and advisers to assist athletes with career planning. "
    http://chronicle.com/article/NCAA-Pr...JLaX92blxSFw==

  2. #2
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldendomer View Post

    my biggest take away: JUST FIVE!?

    where does that leave the AAC and MWC? i could see MAC, Sunbelt, and CUSA falling back, but i would think the AAC and MWC would fight tooth and nail to be included. you can't expect them to compete for anything if they are playing by a different set of rules. will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. 4 of those 5 leagues are too good to fall back to FCS, so maybe they become a new division (or sub-division) with their own 8 team playoff and the best 1-2 FCS leagues move up to join them.

    Div-1 could go back to the old A-AAA, but flip it to mirror baseball with AAA being the top 5 leagues competing for the College Football Playoff.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  3. #3
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldendomer View Post
    Providing additional aid to meet athletes' full cost of attendance and other "enhanced benefits" to support students' needs
    Just to make sure people realize a few things about this:

    1. Aid is available to athletes for "full cost of attendance" just as it is for any other student...cost of attendance from a financial aid perspective includes about $300/mo beyond the cost of tuition, room and board, and books...but that aid would be in the form of loans.
    2. If for some reason an athlete thinks the $300/mo available to him/her doesn't meet their requirements, they can appeal their cost of attendance in an effort to make more loan money available.

    This is not to say you can't still consider personal expense stipends for athletes, but if an athlete complains about not having money for personal stuff (like Jalen Rose talking about worrying about keeping his lights on as a player), I have little sympathy...they have the same avenues available to them as any other financially struggling college kid.

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    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    Just to make sure people realize a few things about this:

    1. Aid is available to athletes for "full cost of attendance" just as it is for any other student...cost of attendance from a financial aid perspective includes about $300/mo beyond the cost of tuition, room and board, and books...but that aid would be in the form of loans.
    2. If for some reason an athlete thinks the $300/mo available to him/her doesn't meet their requirements, they can appeal their cost of attendance in an effort to make more loan money available.

    This is not to say you can't still consider personal expense stipends for athletes, but if an athlete complains about not having money for personal stuff (like Jalen Rose talking about worrying about keeping his lights on as a player), I have little sympathy...they have the same avenues available to them as any other financially struggling college kid.

    not just loans, also Pell Grants.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  5. #5
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    not just loans, also Pell Grants.
    true...if your family truly is that needy, you are likely Pell eligible and could actually get a refund check from VT with no strings attached

    sounds kinda like a "stipend," huh?

    (edit: there's likely even more grant money available for the neediest, but they might have to appeal their cost of attendance to get it)
    Last edited by Pylons; Fri Jan 10 2014 at 12:38 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    true...if your family truly is that needy, you are likely Pell eligible and could actually get a refund check from VT with no strings attached

    sounds kinda like a "stipend," huh?

    (edit: there's likely even more grant money available for the neediest, but they might have to appeal their cost of attendance to get it)
    Yeah I'm totally against this proposed stipend stuff. Not because some of them don't need more money or that most of them don't deserve more money (they might and they might - it's debatable). But really just because this is just a way for the NCAA and its big-time sports playing member institutions to buy more time in total control of the revenue streams. They should just let the kids market themselves and make money from their celebrity and association with the team. Stop trying to crack down on "impermissible benefits" that no fan actually cares about. And in exchange for that the NCAA ought to be able to rain hell down on schools guilty of real academic impropriety (ala UNC and their fake classes).

    In short, we don't need to preserve the illusion of amateurism; we need to enforce a reality in which the athletes are actually students in a meaningful way. That's the concept that fans want to get behind for the most part: the idea that these kids are legitimately college students. It doesn't matter if Johnny Manziel gets paid for his autograph as long as he's actually attending class and progressing toward a degree at Texas A&M. That should be the bigger concern.

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    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobbler-100 View Post
    Yeah I'm totally against this proposed stipend stuff. Not because some of them don't need more money or that most of them don't deserve more money (they might and they might - it's debatable). But really just because this is just a way for the NCAA and its big-time sports playing member institutions to buy more time in total control of the revenue streams. They should just let the kids market themselves and make money from their celebrity and association with the team. Stop trying to crack down on "impermissible benefits" that no fan actually cares about. And in exchange for that the NCAA ought to be able to rain hell down on schools guilty of real academic impropriety (ala UNC and their fake classes).

    In short, we don't need to preserve the illusion of amateurism; we need to enforce a reality in which the athletes are actually students in a meaningful way. That's the concept that fans want to get behind for the most part: the idea that these kids are legitimately college students. It doesn't matter if Johnny Manziel gets paid for his autograph as long as he's actually attending class and progressing toward a degree at Texas A&M. That should be the bigger concern.
    very well stated...
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mercury's Avatar
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    Question: These big schools are intending to go the stipend way, and yes the five conferences want to exclude the rest. PERIOD. It's the business.. My question, if you believe that schools should remain committed to amateurism; it will come down to one decision, schools that offer stipends or not, if you don't, your school will not participate, and your school probably will be kicked out of the conference due. Knowing that the remaining schools will not get the TV Revenues needed to balance the athletic budget.

    WOuld you be prepared for VT to step back and downsize their athletic program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobbler-100 View Post
    Yeah I'm totally against this proposed stipend stuff. Not because some of them don't need more money or that most of them don't deserve more money (they might and they might - it's debatable). But really just because this is just a way for the NCAA and its big-time sports playing member institutions to buy more time in total control of the revenue streams. They should just let the kids market themselves and make money from their celebrity and association with the team. Stop trying to crack down on "impermissible benefits" that no fan actually cares about. And in exchange for that the NCAA ought to be able to rain hell down on schools guilty of real academic impropriety (ala UNC and their fake classes).

    In short, we don't need to preserve the illusion of amateurism; we need to enforce a reality in which the athletes are actually students in a meaningful way. That's the concept that fans want to get behind for the most part: the idea that these kids are legitimately college students. It doesn't matter if Johnny Manziel gets paid for his autograph as long as he's actually attending class and progressing toward a degree at Texas A&M. That should be the bigger concern.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Question: These big schools are intending to go the stipend way, and yes the five conferences want to exclude the rest. PERIOD. It's the business.. My question, if you believe that schools should remain committed to amateurism; it will come down to one decision, schools that offer stipends or not, if you don't, your school will not participate, and your school probably will be kicked out of the conference due. Knowing that the remaining schools will not get the TV Revenues needed to balance the athletic budget.

    WOuld you be prepared for VT to step back and downsize their athletic program.
    I don't care anything about amateurism, and I don't care if the schools pay the players. I just don't think the stipend should be used as a continuing excuse to not allow players to market themselves and trade on their celebrity for profit. Obviously if there's going to be a new top division of 1-A football that is defined by conferences whose schools pay a stipend, I don't think Virginia Tech should voluntarily drop out of that. That would be insane.

    I'm just saying the stipend is a b.s. maneuver to try and continue to control the revenue streams and, especially, to keep the donor money coming directly to the schools.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mercury's Avatar
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    Bugzy, the five big conferences, do not want to share the revenue with the rest, and really make it about them. They want the freedom to operate (if it includes stipends etc.)…NCAA constrains them. If the NCAA doesn't back the demands, these five leave and form their own association, and guess what NCAA becomes a shell of itself. NCAA tourney has no Ky, no Duke no Arizona etc. and guess what no TV Revenues which funds the operation of the NCAA (and the lower level divisions (who operate at a loss).


    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    my biggest take away: JUST FIVE!?

    where does that leave the AAC and MWC? i could see MAC, Sunbelt, and CUSA falling back, but i would think the AAC and MWC would fight tooth and nail to be included. you can't expect them to compete for anything if they are playing by a different set of rules. will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. 4 of those 5 leagues are too good to fall back to FCS, so maybe they become a new division (or sub-division) with their own 8 team playoff and the best 1-2 FCS leagues move up to join them.

    Div-1 could go back to the old A-AAA, but flip it to mirror baseball with AAA being the top 5 leagues competing for the College Football Playoff.

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