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  1. #21
    Senior Member vthokiedsp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcbvtgm View Post
    First, there were no 5* on that line for Auburn last night. And there were a couple of 3* (if you include the TE). Second, VT has had quite a few 4* OL recruits and the success rate compared to 3* and even 2* appears to be random. Recruiting stars are not a particularly good barometer for future performance by OL.
    Didn't say that auburn had 5 stars playing last night. I realize it can be a crap shoot. If it was that random though, the top programs in the sec and around the country wouldn't bother with the 5 stars right?
    Last edited by vthokiedsp; Tue Jan 07 2014 at 08:16 PM.
    It's not that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.

  2. #22

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    Where would you rank Antonio Freeman in that category? NFL Pro Bowler, 6,000 + NFL yds. receiving, 57 NFL TD's ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Pride_and_Joy View Post
    We've never had an uber-receiver. Josh Morgan and Justin Harper were big physical guys who could run -- and Eddie Royal was a quick and explosive player. But we've never had the "whole package" type receiver.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 48zip View Post
    Not a knock on Grimes, but don't forget those guys were signing up after they had just won a MNC, correct? It has to help.
    Quote Originally Posted by HokieMike94 View Post
    Thats a great point. I would like to know how many he recruited before the NC
    Don't forget Grimes coached the OL to that first MNC after the 2010 season. That was his 3rd year if I do my math right.

    Cheers,

    Bobby
    Last edited by hokie_n_savannah; Tue Jan 07 2014 at 08:18 PM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by vthokiedsp View Post
    Didn't say that auburn had 5 stars playing last night. I realize it can be a crap shoot. If it was that random though, the top programs in the sec and around the country wouldn't bother with the 5 stars right?
    True but you implied that the top schools are full of 4* and 5* lineman. The fact of the matter is that there are only three Rivals 5* OL's this year -- so almost everybody is getting locked out of 5* OL recruits. And there are less than 50 4* OL's total. But there are LOTS of 3* OL recruits going to big time schools.

    The truth is that even for the biggies, OL recruits are more 3* & 4* than 4* & 5* on the OL. Just using last night's natl championship teams, Auburn has one 3* OL recruit committed thus far and FSU has a 2*, three 3* and three 4* thus far. VT has five 3*. Other than a handful or so of schools, VT really isn't different from other top schools in terms of the perceived level of their OL talent coming out of HS.

    VT's problem is mostly that it has whiffed on projecting talent and/or coaching/development, not that the recruits weren't good on paper.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiepro View Post
    Unfortunately the two we've had (Marcus Davis and DJ Coles) were afraid to block and injured, respectively...DJ could block
    Both would meet the physical requirements. Although I probably would consider Marcus Davis as a 1/2 WR. If I remember correctly, I believe Davis was a QB in high school and converted to WR when he came to VT, so I am not sure he had all the "natural" instincts that is typically associated with a player who played the position in high school. You did forget Ernest "Stone Hands" Wilford. At 6'4 215-220lbs, I believe he would qualify as a big physical WR. He probably would have had a more productive pro career (instead of spending it switching between TE and WR) if he had learned to have soft hand.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by marcbvtgm View Post
    True but you implied that the top schools are full of 4* and 5* lineman. The fact of the matter is that there are only three Rivals 5* OL's this year -- so almost everybody is getting locked out of 5* OL recruits. And there are less than 50 4* OL's total. But there are LOTS of 3* OL recruits going to big time schools.

    The truth is that even for the biggies, OL recruits are more 3* & 4* than 4* & 5* on the OL. Just using last night's natl championship teams, Auburn has one 3* OL recruit committed thus far and FSU has a 2*, three 3* and three 4* thus far. VT has five 3*. Other than a handful or so of schools, VT really isn't different from other top schools in terms of the perceived level of their OL talent coming out of HS.

    VT's problem is mostly that it has whiffed on projecting talent and/or coaching/development, not that the recruits weren't good on paper.
    Would you say that all * are the same regardless the state the player is from? For example a 3* from AL would be also be a 3* if he was from ME, PA, CA, SD, or KY. Or is it more reasonable to assume that if the player played high school football in another state, then his ranking could be different? For example a 3* from TX could be a 4* if he played high school football in NC.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHokie83 View Post
    I agree to a point. The problem is, we don't recruit like an SEC school. Grimes certainly does seem like he knows what he's doing, but I would love to have some of the 4* and 5* OL talent that they used to round out that OL.
    Do you think OL recruiting is affected as much by conference prowess as other positions? I get the feeling that OL is less affect by the draw of SEC as say a RB or DE. I may be wrong...

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTHokie2000 View Post
    Would you say that all * are the same regardless the state the player is from? For example a 3* from AL would be also be a 3* if he was from ME, PA, CA, SD, or KY. Or is it more reasonable to assume that if the player played high school football in another state, then his ranking could be different? For example a 3* from TX could be a 4* if he played high school football in NC.
    I agree with your point, but IMO I would say that your example is inversed...all things being a 3* from NC might be a 4* if he played in TX. Largely because there is a lot more focus on HS football in TX than NC -- and the recruiting services make their money by selling subscriptions and advertising. Thus there is a built-in incentive to tell people what they want to hear and overrate kids from certain locales and/or commitments to certain schools.

    While we seem to notice VT's misses in recruiting, VT's track record has been pretty good compared to a lot of big-name schools when looking at recruiting stars and NFL draft picks. IMO, a substantial part of that is due to overrating of kids in certain locales or where they are committed.

  9. #29
    Senior Member vthokiedsp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcbvtgm View Post
    VT's problem is mostly that it has whiffed on projecting talent and/or coaching/development, not that the recruits weren't good on paper.
    or the sheer fact that VT offered they were bumped to a 3* when they were probably not worthy of a star rating in the first place. that's why i snuck the word "true 4*" in there.

    the bottom line is, when you look at SEC and other top programs, there is a big disparity in size and athleticism. VT needs to step up their game for recruiting offensive lineman and it appears Grimes is doing that. we'll see how they pan out.
    Last edited by vthokiedsp; Wed Jan 08 2014 at 09:31 AM.
    It's not that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by marcbvtgm View Post
    I agree with your point, but IMO I would say that your example is inversed...all things being a 3* from NC might be a 4* if he played in TX. Largely because there is a lot more focus on HS football in TX than NC -- and the recruiting services make their money by selling subscriptions and advertising. Thus there is a built-in incentive to tell people what they want to hear and overrate kids from certain locales and/or commitments to certain schools.

    While we seem to notice VT's misses in recruiting, VT's track record has been pretty good compared to a lot of big-name schools when looking at recruiting stars and NFL draft picks. IMO, a substantial part of that is due to overrating of kids in certain locales or where they are committed.
    I get where you are going, but I believe you forgot to factor in the talent level within a state. When trying to compare competition levels between states, you almost have to view it like a pyramid.

    Top of the pyramid: CA, FL, and TX
    Middle of the pyramid: AL, MS, LA, GA, SC, NC, VA, PA, and OH
    Bottom of the pyramid: Everyone else

    There can be a few more layers to the pyramid (if you want), but the logic should still work the same. As you move from top to bottom, the competition should get easier and a recruit will have a better chance to improve his recruiting rating because he will appear that much more talented to his instate competition. As you move from bottom to top, then the competition will get tougher and a recruit will have fewer chances to improve his recruiting rating because any "weaknesses" in his game will have a greater chance to be exposed. Any weaknesses in a recruit's game will lower his recruiting rating, not increase it.

    Also, you have to keep in mind that high schools are playing more games against schools from other states (and I am not talking about neighboring states either). I think it was either last year or the year before that Oscar Smith (from the '757') played a school from either OH, SC, or FL in a made for TV game that was aired on either ESPN or ESPNU. Even though it may be a small sample size, it does give the experts, who follow high school football (for recruiting purposes), a barometer to quantify the talent level within a state. Not to mention the various summer camps that players (from all over the country) participate in can help quantify the talent level in state because now the experts have 2 data points; 1. how the player does against the best from other states and 2. how the player does against other players from within the state.

    Edit: Another thing you may not be factoring in (which can tie directly to competition level) is that a classification of a school may not be the same from state to state. For example a 6A school in TX may qualify as a 8A school in VA. The higher the enrollment at a school, then the greater chance to have a larger football roster (since there is no limits). The more players a team has, then the greater chance that the more "talented" athletes in the school coud be on the roster.
    Last edited by VTHokie2000; Wed Jan 08 2014 at 10:42 AM.

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