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Thread: Zumwalt - thug?

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    IB4TECH's Avatar
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    Zumwalt - thug?

    At first I gave Zumwalt a pass on whether an ejection should have occurred. But the more I saw the replay, and after seeing the athlete that Zumwalt is, I think he calculated the hit on LT very well.
    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

    -Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by IB4TECH View Post
    At first I gave Zumwalt a pass on whether an ejection should have occurred. But the more I saw the replay, and after seeing the athlete that Zumwalt is, I think he calculated the hit on LT very well.
    I watched the game with a friend that officiates HS hockey. This year they put a big emphasis on head-to-head contact in youth hockey. Officials are trained to watch for the head snapping backward, as we saw with the hit on Logan, indicating head-to-head contact. I could have looked the other way if Logan had stayed in the game. Instead UCLA got to keep their defensive MVP while we lost our #1 offensive player. Then Zumwalt had two other helmet-to-helmet hits. He should have been ejected, and the announcers backing him was just salt in the wound.
    Go Hokies

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    Quote Originally Posted by IB4TECH View Post
    At first I gave Zumwalt a pass on whether an ejection should have occurred. But the more I saw the replay, and after seeing the athlete that Zumwalt is, I think he calculated the hit on LT very well.
    It was a clean hit, IMHO. At first I thought he hit LT in the head, but the replay showed that the first contact was to the shoulder. I think Zumwalt played it about as well as he could have played it. It was a mistake for the refs to throw a flag on that play.

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    2 steps to hitting LT = cheap shot...

    Quote Originally Posted by IB4TECH View Post
    At first I gave Zumwalt a pass on whether an ejection should have occurred. But the more I saw the replay, and after seeing the athlete that Zumwalt is, I think he calculated the hit on LT very well.
    check the replay in slomo - Zumwalt takes two steps to hit LT. This play happens 10 times per game, but a defensive player typically pulls up because it's the right thing to do. Zumwalt lacks the 'right thing to do' gene and thus was penalized. You get ONE step. ONE.

    The subsequent helmet-to-helmet hit by Zumwalt is just confirmation. He's a thug. He either won't last in the pros or he'll adjust his game. Thug. No-brainer calls imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiestud View Post
    It was a clean hit, IMHO. At first I thought he hit LT in the head, but the replay showed that the first contact was to the shoulder. I think Zumwalt played it about as well as he could have played it. It was a mistake for the refs to throw a flag on that play.
    I disagree. Anybody who has played football knows the difference. You get one full force step to hit the QB after he releases the ball. If it takes two steps, you are over the line. Zumwalt is just one of those guys....

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    two91hokies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiestud View Post
    It was a clean hit, IMHO. At first I thought he hit LT in the head, but the replay showed that the first contact was to the shoulder. I think Zumwalt played it about as well as he could have played it. It was a mistake for the refs to throw a flag on that play.
    There's either helmet-to-helmet or not. From every replay I saw there was helmet-to-helmet contact. Where did LT's concussion occur?

    The refs also give hits on QB's less leeway.

    LT is 6'5". Zumwalt only needed to lower himself 6", and should have planted his shoulder into the 3 on LT's jersey. He had a clean shot.

    I've seen a lot more marginal plays called in the past 2 years.

    That being said, Zumwalt is a hell of a player and is going to make a lot of money in the NFL.

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    I kept hoping that somebody would have a Marcus Vick moment and step on his neck or ankle while he was laying on the ground. With his "need" to hit with the crown of his helmet, it wouldn't surprise me to see him carried off the field any time in the future with a spinal injury. Calling that a personal foul was a total cop out by the officiating crew.
    "Just once before I die, a National Championship in something."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by two91hokies View Post
    There's either helmet-to-helmet or not. From every replay I saw there was helmet-to-helmet contact. Where did LT's concussion occur?

    The refs also give hits on QB's less leeway.

    LT is 6'5". Zumwalt only needed to lower himself 6", and should have planted his shoulder into the 3 on LT's jersey. He had a clean shot.

    I've seen a lot more marginal plays called in the past 2 years.

    That being said, Zumwalt is a hell of a player and is going to make a lot of money in the NFL.
    Here is the rules for targeting.

    RULES

    Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)

    No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.

    Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)

    No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)

    KEY ELEMENTS

    Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

    Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.

    Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.

    Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

    Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

    A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
    A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
    A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
    A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
    A player on the ground.
    A player obviously out of the play.
    A player who receives a blind-side block.
    A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
    A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

    KEY INDICATORS

    Risk of a foul is high with one or more of these:

    Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make contact in the head or neck area
    A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with contact at the head or neck area—even though one or both feet are still on the ground
    Leading with helmet, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with contact at the head or neck area
    Lowering the head before attacking by initiating contact with the crown of the helmet


    These indicate less risk of a foul:

    Heads-up tackle in which the crown of the helmet does not strike above the shoulders
    Wrap-up tackle
    Head is to the side rather than being used to initiate contact
    Incidental helmet contact that is not part of targeting but is due to the players changing position during the course of play

    http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

    I know during the season there seemed to be an interpretation to expand the rule to include the shoulder area. Did Zumwalt target? It probably a borderline call since it did appear he lower his helmet before the hit and led with it. You could even make a case that after contact he did launch himself upward. However, his forearm did strike his chest and not the neck/head which is probably why the foul was unnecessary roughness. Given the height difference between the players, I am not sure he could have placed himself in a position to be flagged for targeting.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiestud View Post
    It was a clean hit, IMHO. At first I thought he hit LT in the head, but the replay showed that the first contact was to the shoulder. I think Zumwalt played it about as well as he could have played it. It was a mistake for the refs to throw a flag on that play.
    No way Hokiestud, no way. Hit him right under the chin. Even if you say he couldn't hold up he could have tackled him right in the gut and planted him like Miles Jack did a few plays before. He went high to a defenseless player after Logan had trucked a few Bruins a few plays before. I'm pretty sure that was a hit to make a message and borderline thuggish. With all of the attention on trying to protect players I can't believe Lundquest and Danielson sat there and tried to justify that hit.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTHokie2000 View Post
    Here is the rules for targeting.

    RULES

    Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)

    No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.

    Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)

    No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)

    KEY ELEMENTS

    Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

    Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.

    Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.

    Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

    Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

    A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
    A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
    A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
    A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
    A player on the ground.
    A player obviously out of the play.
    A player who receives a blind-side block.
    A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
    A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

    KEY INDICATORS

    Risk of a foul is high with one or more of these:

    Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make contact in the head or neck area
    A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with contact at the head or neck area—even though one or both feet are still on the ground
    Leading with helmet, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with contact at the head or neck area
    Lowering the head before attacking by initiating contact with the crown of the helmet


    These indicate less risk of a foul:

    Heads-up tackle in which the crown of the helmet does not strike above the shoulders
    Wrap-up tackle
    Head is to the side rather than being used to initiate contact
    Incidental helmet contact that is not part of targeting but is due to the players changing position during the course of play

    http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

    I know during the season there seemed to be an interpretation to expand the rule to include the shoulder area. Did Zumwalt target? It probably a borderline call since it did appear he lower his helmet before the hit and led with it. You could even make a case that after contact he did launch himself upward. However, his forearm did strike his chest and not the neck/head which is probably why the foul was unnecessary roughness. Given the height difference between the players, I am not sure he could have placed himself in a position to be flagged for targeting.
    It was a helmet to helmet hit that was not even close to simultaneous with LT releasing the ball. He hit LT on the chin with his helmet.
    Refs missed it bad.

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