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  1. #61
    Senior Member vthokiedsp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogbob View Post
    Wins are all that counts.
    Nah. Wins matter. A lot. However they aren't the the only metric that matters. Recruiting, general culture of the team, system, public perception among donors, etc are pieces of the puzzle as well. The value for each variable is different based on the type of AD. Our football team is a perfect example of the fools gold that happens when wins alone are over valued.
    It's not that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.

  2. #62
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogbob View Post
    I think if he did that, we would lose more games. One point guard. Few good ball-handlers on our team. Our big guys don't strike me as being good for using pressure. More fouls. Last year, he did not have enough bodies for practice without using walk-ons. I think he is trying to do a balancing act with what he has. I think we will see more as he gets his recruits in to the system. JMHO.
    I'm not talking about playing 40 minutes of hell every game or anything. How many minutes of press have we played in 40+ games? We can't try it for 5-10 minutes a game? Come out of a timeout and surprise someone with some fullcourt pressure or 1/2 or 3/4 court trapping?

    At some point you have to start laying the foundation for the style you want to play.

  3. #63
    maddogbob's Avatar
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    Seth's system was dull and boring. Grinding is/was not fun to watch. Yes he did occasionally pull an upset with it, but the ceiling was quite limited. The better players don't want to play in a system so boring. And Seth was profane and obnoxious. There was a reason he could not keep players and coaches. INMHO, JJ is trying to change that culture. He is also trying to bring some excitement back. He needs to get the kind of players that will fit into the system he wants. This year is the "first" with his own players. By that, I mean guys he wanted to recruit and not the guys Seth told him to recruit. I like what i have seen of the 3 freshmen so far. I like the guys he has signed for next year. I think he will start to do more implementation of his system when he has mostly his guys to run it. Once Seth's guys are gone and there is a need for fewer walk-ons, I believe the wins will go up.The only sad part is the empty seats. That won't change until the Athletic Department changes. Season ticket priority goes to the higher ranked Hokie Club people who want to support the team be live too far away to attend very many games. That will change when they realize that the people best suited to filling seats live close by. I think JJ deserves the chance to show what he can do. He has had 1 year and 12 games so far. Hardly fair. And VT will not spend big money on a big name hire. Never has. Never will. Not in the culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by vthokiedsp View Post
    Nah. Wins matter. A lot. However they aren't the the only metric that matters. Recruiting, general culture of the team, system, public perception among donors, etc are pieces of the puzzle as well. The value for each variable is different based on the type of AD. Our football team is a perfect example of the fools gold that happens when wins alone are over valued.

  4. #64
    maddogbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    I'm not talking about playing 40 minutes of hell every game or anything. How many minutes of press have we played in 40+ games? We can't try it for 5-10 minutes a game? Come out of a timeout and surprise someone with some fullcourt pressure or 1/2 or 3/4 court trapping?

    At some point you have to start laying the foundation for the style you want to play.
    I think we will start to see that next year when he has more of his guys. We are still seriously undermanned right now. Too much reliance on walk-ons. We rely heavily on 3 frosh, 3 sophs, and 3 walk-ons. Not good.

  5. #65
    OrangeHokieFan's Avatar
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    In only his second year Greenberg had his team in the NIT. JJs style of play isn't much better than Greenberg's so far. He runs too much one on one offense when we are under talented. He needs to focus on the fundamentals more. There's no reason to have a team so sloppy. If he doesn't pick the pace up and show us something next year he should be gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogbob View Post
    Seth's system was dull and boring. Grinding is/was not fun to watch. Yes he did occasionally pull an upset with it, but the ceiling was quite limited. The better players don't want to play in a system so boring. And Seth was profane and obnoxious. There was a reason he could not keep players and coaches. INMHO, JJ is trying to change that culture. He is also trying to bring some excitement back. He needs to get the kind of players that will fit into the system he wants. This year is the "first" with his own players. By that, I mean guys he wanted to recruit and not the guys Seth told him to recruit. I like what i have seen of the 3 freshmen so far. I like the guys he has signed for next year. I think he will start to do more implementation of his system when he has mostly his guys to run it. Once Seth's guys are gone and there is a need for fewer walk-ons, I believe the wins will go up.The only sad part is the empty seats. That won't change until the Athletic Department changes. Season ticket priority goes to the higher ranked Hokie Club people who want to support the team be live too far away to attend very many games. That will change when they realize that the people best suited to filling seats live close by. I think JJ deserves the chance to show what he can do. He has had 1 year and 12 games so far. Hardly fair. And VT will not spend big money on a big name hire. Never has. Never will. Not in the culture.

  6. #66
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogbob View Post
    I think we will start to see that next year when he has more of his guys. We are still seriously undermanned right now. Too much reliance on walk-ons. We rely heavily on 3 frosh, 3 sophs, and 3 walk-ons. Not good.
    We're not relying heavily on 3 walk-ons. They're 8th, 11th, and 12th on the team in minutes played and 10th, 11th, and 12th in points scored. Even with the injury/doghouse issues we've had. Maybe you can count Johnston as heavily relied upon, but that'd be it.

    Those 6 sophs/frosh plus 2 frosh that are practicing but not playing are the core that are going to determine JJ's fate at VT...I wouldn't be waiting around to implement what I want to do.

  7. #67
    RapmasterAC's Avatar
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    I think JJ's hands are tied behind his back (again) due to the roster. You can't do much ball pressure with only one PG available to play (and a freshman at that)!

    So sadly, we write another year off, and pray that we have a full roster next year and don't lose any players next year to injury/transfer/doghouse.

  8. #68
    Senior Member vthokiedsp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RapmasterAC View Post
    You can't do much ball pressure with only one PG available to play (and a freshman at that)!
    agree. teams can rely heavily on one point guard, some even as a freshman but pressing is another issue. ennis at syracuse for example. he averages almost 33 minutes a game as a freshman. wilson averages just over 32. syracuse couldn't afford to be a high pressure type of team in their position either. teams like louisville (a couple years ago) and vcu had/have 2 or 3 capable point guards.
    It's not that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.

  9. #69
    True, and if JJ recruited most of those guys, I think it further proves the point that you can recruit highly coveted players with lots of stars to VT. The orginal post was stating we need a national championship for JJ to be able to recruit 4 and 5 star players. I think it's agreed upon that based SGs classes (whether JJ was involved or not), we definitely can get those players. Stars aren't everything, and some of the players may have been busts, but all were being heavily pursued by other ACC schools. We need to get back to outrecruiting our competition for players if we want to then turn around and beat our competition on the court. Hopefully the "diamond in the ruff" and "looking under rocks" strategies were only temporary until JJ could establish relationships with top prospects. Those kind of strategies are basically hail mary strategies that can't sustain the program forever. Eventually we need somebody that had lots of options to play ball at the ACC level, but chose VT.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogbob View Post
    Not really. JJ recruited who SG told him to recruit. The boss runs the show not the assistant.

  10. #70
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vthokiedsp View Post
    agree. teams can rely heavily on one point guard, some even as a freshman but pressing is another issue. ennis at syracuse for example. he averages almost 33 minutes a game as a freshman. wilson averages just over 32. syracuse couldn't afford to be a high pressure type of team in their position either. teams like louisville (a couple years ago) and vcu had/have 2 or 3 capable point guards.
    but, again, I'm not even talking about being a "high pressure team." we've played some 2-3 zone this year, but I wouldn't call us a "zone team."

    maybe one spurt coming out of a timeout per game. maybe 5 mins/game.

    and play Adam Smith at the point. I know folks say "oh, he's not a PG." Well, it's not like we'd be asking Raines to play the point. Smith played the point for UNCW and can do it as a backup for us.

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