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  1. #1

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    Syracuse AD idea of getting to all schools in a 4-year cycle. Here's an idea....

    ...to get it done with 8 conference games within a division format:

    2--permanent rivals (Rival #1 and Rival #2)
    1--Rival #3/"flex" game
    5--rotation games (to get to all locations in 4 years)

    There will be one (or two) non-rival teams in your own divisions that won't be on the schedule in a given year. Rivals #3 will be in the opposite division. One or both of Rivals #1 and Rivals #2 will be in the same division. And no two teams in the same division will have the same two non-rival division opponents left off their schedule in a given year (this will prevent there from being three 8-0 unbeaten teams in the same division). Divisions realignment might need tweaking, but no need to get into that now since it will be less of a big deal since everyone will now play each other often.

    All Rival #3 opponents will be play their games on the same weekend late in the season (Week 11). These games will be played UNLESS there are two teams in the SAME division that are undefeated (say, 6-0 in the ACC) that are NOT on each other's schedule in the season in question. If that is the case, the two unbeaten divisional teams must PLAY. And their two scheduled opponents will play each other the same weekend.

    Week 12 will be reserved for #1 or #2 Rivalry games.

    This flex scheduling will NOT be used to break ties among first place teams with conference losses. It will only be used to break ties among unbeatens. Otherwise, normal quirky tie-breaker rules can apply to leave Rival #3 games in tact. I figure that a schedule change using flex scheduling will be quite rare.

    This will solve the problem of getting to all locations in a four-year cycle.

    It will also assure that no teams unbeaten in the ACC will be left out of the championship game.

    It will also keep the NCAA rule of having divisions as a qualification for a title game.

    Now, if the ACC wants to man up and go to 9 games, then the scheduling gets that much easier to solve. If you go to 9 games, the above is still a great options.

    Here is a preliminary look at the Rival 1, 2, and 3. Nothing set in stone, just a thought I through together last night.

    SCHOOL--Rival 1, Rival 2, Rival 3 (flex)
    Boston College--Syracuse, Miami, Pitt
    Clemson--GT, FSU, Wake
    Duke--Wake, Louisville, UNC
    Florida State--Miami, Clemson, Louisville
    Georgia Tech--Clemson, Wake, NCSt
    Louisville--Pitt, Duke, FSU
    Miami--FSU, BC, VT
    North Carolina--UVa, NCSt, Duke
    North Carolina St.--VT, UNC, GT
    Pittsburgh--Louisville, Syracuse, BC
    Syracuse--BC, Pitt, UVa
    Virginia--UNC, VT, Syracuse
    Virginia Tech--NCSt, UVa, Miami
    Wake Forest--Duke, GT, Clemson

    Here is how it would work: Let's say that division foes FSU and Syracuse would be 6-0 come week 11 yet not scheduled to play. In week 11, FSU would drop their opponent (Louisville) and so would Syracuse (Virginia). So the week 11 schedule would be FSU vs. Syracuse & Louisville vs. Virginia. Again, this would be rare. But it solves the problem of playing each other twice in four years and allowing for unbeatens to have a path to the ACCCG.

    BTW, this is NOT a list of the top 3 rivals for each school. But the top 3 AVAILABLE "rivals" for each school. Bottom line is...not every school can be UNC's top rival.

  2. #2
    Hokie CPA's Avatar
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    That's really not too different from the rotating pod system. You try to get rivals into the same pods and rotate through the other pods by playing two pods in rotating divisions and the third pod as permanent cross divisional opponents. Same effect... You play everyone twice, home and away, every four years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokie CPA View Post
    I think the easiest way is by rotating pods through divisions... like so:



    Now, I did this before Maryland announced they were leaving, so replace Maryland with Loserville and I also assumed Notre Dame and UConn would be teams 15 and 16. The Pods are subject to change, but this is how I envision the Pod scheduling system.
    *.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*. *.*.*.*.*.*

    I just wish we would STOP with the zone blocking read option crap and line up in the I, put a hat on a hat and run the tailback behind the fullback through a designated gosh-danged hole. There is NO REASON why this program shouldn't be able to find 5 fat guys who can move some people out of the way and clear a lane for a back to get through!

  3. #3
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    ...to get it done with 8 conference games within a division format:

    2--permanent rivals (Rival #1 and Rival #2)
    1--Rival #3/"flex" game
    5--rotation games (to get to all locations in 4 years)

    There will be one (or two) non-rival teams in your own divisions that won't be on the schedule in a given year. Rivals #3 will be in the opposite division. One or both of Rivals #1 and Rivals #2 will be in the same division. And no two teams in the same division will have the same two non-rival division opponents left off their schedule in a given year (this will prevent there from being three 8-0 unbeaten teams in the same division). Divisions realignment might need tweaking, but no need to get into that now since it will be less of a big deal since everyone will now play each other often.

    All Rival #3 opponents will be play their games on the same weekend late in the season (Week 11). These games will be played UNLESS there are two teams in the SAME division that are undefeated (say, 6-0 in the ACC) that are NOT on each other's schedule in the season in question. If that is the case, the two unbeaten divisional teams must PLAY. And their two scheduled opponents will play each other the same weekend.

    Week 12 will be reserved for #1 or #2 Rivalry games.

    This flex scheduling will NOT be used to break ties among first place teams with conference losses. It will only be used to break ties among unbeatens. Otherwise, normal quirky tie-breaker rules can apply to leave Rival #3 games in tact. I figure that a schedule change using flex scheduling will be quite rare.

    This will solve the problem of getting to all locations in a four-year cycle.

    It will also assure that no teams unbeaten in the ACC will be left out of the championship game.

    It will also keep the NCAA rule of having divisions as a qualification for a title game.

    Now, if the ACC wants to man up and go to 9 games, then the scheduling gets that much easier to solve. If you go to 9 games, the above is still a great options.

    Here is a preliminary look at the Rival 1, 2, and 3. Nothing set in stone, just a thought I through together last night.

    SCHOOL--Rival 1, Rival 2, Rival 3 (flex)
    Boston College--Syracuse, Miami, Pitt
    Clemson--GT, FSU, Wake
    Duke--Wake, Louisville, UNC
    Florida State--Miami, Clemson, Louisville
    Georgia Tech--Clemson, Wake, NCSt
    Louisville--Pitt, Duke, FSU
    Miami--FSU, BC, VT
    North Carolina--UVa, NCSt, Duke
    North Carolina St.--VT, UNC, GT
    Pittsburgh--Louisville, Syracuse, BC
    Syracuse--BC, Pitt, UVa
    Virginia--UNC, VT, Syracuse
    Virginia Tech--NCSt, UVa, Miami
    Wake Forest--Duke, GT, Clemson

    Here is how it would work: Let's say that division foes FSU and Syracuse would be 6-0 come week 11 yet not scheduled to play. In week 11, FSU would drop their opponent (Louisville) and so would Syracuse (Virginia). So the week 11 schedule would be FSU vs. Syracuse & Louisville vs. Virginia. Again, this would be rare. But it solves the problem of playing each other twice in four years and allowing for unbeatens to have a path to the ACCCG.

    BTW, this is NOT a list of the top 3 rivals for each school. But the top 3 AVAILABLE "rivals" for each school. Bottom line is...not every school can be UNC's top rival.
    Syracuse has been the ACC for less than 6 months and are making demands.

    Seriously, getting a 9th conference game will be difficult since FSU, Clemson, and GT aren't thrilled about it. The ACC was likely to replace Maryland with UConn last year until FSU and its southern partners said "NO" and persuaded the ACC into taking Louisville. FSU showed the Carolina mafia that they wanted things their way and the Carolina mafia listened to a school outside of the North Carolina state boundaries for once. Football runs college football and FSU and Clemson comprise 2 of the 3 traditional ACC football powerhouses.

    Weaver has publicly stated that he would be in favor of 9 conference games. I assume that the new AD will feel the same way. It appears that the majority of the ACC members are in favor of 9 conference games but would the ACC want to ruffle FSU's and Clemson's feathers?

  4. #4

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    Hokie CPA, If my calculations are correct, you will need to 9 conference games to get to everyone in a 4-pod, 16-team conference in a 4-year span. I am trying to do it with the current construct according to the Syracuse AD's comments. I figure it will at least be discussed. On the other hand, ND isn't coming to the ACC full time in a long, long time, if at all. And unless they do, I'm not interested in going to 16 unless we can get some marquis teams (such as Texas).

  5. #5
    Seems silly to me. Why have divisions if everyone in the division don't play each other.

  6. #6

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    What's silly is having a team in your conference, but not visiting their campus for the better part of a decade. It is also NCAA rules that you have to have divisions. That's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlee Hokie View Post
    Seems silly to me. Why have divisions if everyone in the division don't play each other.

  7. #7
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlee Hokie View Post
    Seems silly to me. Why have divisions if everyone in the division don't play each other.
    it's not silly, necessarily, but i don't think the NCAA will go for it. we'll see.

    as far as silly, NFL teams play 16 games, and only 6 are against their division.

    i'm veryn interwsted to see what comes of division realignment.

    if i had to rank my (VT) requirements:

    1. uva every year
    2. everyone else at least twice every 4 years.

    anything that allows that to happen i am 100% behind!
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post

    if i had to rank my (VT) requirements:

    1. uva every year
    2. everyone else at least twice every 4 years.

    anything that allows that to happen i am 100% behind!
    I agree with your priorities. I think for scheduling UNC is a key problem. It may very well be that 4 schools see UNC as their top rival (UVa, NCSt, Duke, and possibly Wake)

  9. #9

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    Just need 4 divisions in each conference. Win your division and advance toward the final four.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    ...to get it done with 8 conference games within a division format:

    2--permanent rivals (Rival #1 and Rival #2)
    1--Rival #3/"flex" game
    5--rotation games (to get to all locations in 4 years)

    There will be one (or two) non-rival teams in your own divisions that won't be on the schedule in a given year. Rivals #3 will be in the opposite division. One or both of Rivals #1 and Rivals #2 will be in the same division. And no two teams in the same division will have the same two non-rival division opponents left off their schedule in a given year (this will prevent there from being three 8-0 unbeaten teams in the same division). Divisions realignment might need tweaking, but no need to get into that now since it will be less of a big deal since everyone will now play each other often.

    All Rival #3 opponents will be play their games on the same weekend late in the season (Week 11). These games will be played UNLESS there are two teams in the SAME division that are undefeated (say, 6-0 in the ACC) that are NOT on each other's schedule in the season in question. If that is the case, the two unbeaten divisional teams must PLAY. And their two scheduled opponents will play each other the same weekend.

    Week 12 will be reserved for #1 or #2 Rivalry games.

    This flex scheduling will NOT be used to break ties among first place teams with conference losses. It will only be used to break ties among unbeatens. Otherwise, normal quirky tie-breaker rules can apply to leave Rival #3 games in tact. I figure that a schedule change using flex scheduling will be quite rare.

    This will solve the problem of getting to all locations in a four-year cycle.

    It will also assure that no teams unbeaten in the ACC will be left out of the championship game.

    It will also keep the NCAA rule of having divisions as a qualification for a title game.

    Now, if the ACC wants to man up and go to 9 games, then the scheduling gets that much easier to solve. If you go to 9 games, the above is still a great options.

    Here is a preliminary look at the Rival 1, 2, and 3. Nothing set in stone, just a thought I through together last night.

    SCHOOL--Rival 1, Rival 2, Rival 3 (flex)
    Boston College--Syracuse, Miami, Pitt
    Clemson--GT, FSU, Wake
    Duke--Wake, Louisville, UNC
    Florida State--Miami, Clemson, Louisville
    Georgia Tech--Clemson, Wake, NCSt
    Louisville--Pitt, Duke, FSU
    Miami--FSU, BC, VT
    North Carolina--UVa, NCSt, Duke
    North Carolina St.--VT, UNC, GT
    Pittsburgh--Louisville, Syracuse, BC
    Syracuse--BC, Pitt, UVa
    Virginia--UNC, VT, Syracuse
    Virginia Tech--NCSt, UVa, Miami
    Wake Forest--Duke, GT, Clemson

    Here is how it would work: Let's say that division foes FSU and Syracuse would be 6-0 come week 11 yet not scheduled to play. In week 11, FSU would drop their opponent (Louisville) and so would Syracuse (Virginia). So the week 11 schedule would be FSU vs. Syracuse & Louisville vs. Virginia. Again, this would be rare. But it solves the problem of playing each other twice in four years and allowing for unbeatens to have a path to the ACCCG.

    BTW, this is NOT a list of the top 3 rivals for each school. But the top 3 AVAILABLE "rivals" for each school. Bottom line is...not every school can be UNC's top rival.

  10. #10
    Hokie CPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stech View Post
    Just need 4 divisions in each conference. Win your division and advance toward the final four.
    In a perfect world, that works. But we don't live in a perfect world and it's gonna take a Act of God miracle to get the NCAA to change the rules they have set up on championship games. There has to be two divisions and one game at the end of the regular season. And everyone in the division has to play each other. As long as we have protected games we are gonna be out of whack in the frequency with which we play teams in the other division.

    The easiest thing to do, without going to nine games, is go to a north-south alignment and get rid of the protected crossovers. That allows us to play everyone in the other division at least once every four years and we'll work through them all, home and away, on a seven year cycle.

    Unfortunately, that messes up the UVA-UNC rivalry. Add a ninth conference game and we work through the cross-overs, home and away, every five years. UVA and UNC could play each other twice each four years, occasionally skipping an extra year in the cycle. Would they be able to live with that? I don't know. We'd face the same issue with Miami. Could we face playing them two out of every four years and change if it meant we were also playing FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and the Carolina schools twice every four years?
    *.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*. *.*.*.*.*.*

    I just wish we would STOP with the zone blocking read option crap and line up in the I, put a hat on a hat and run the tailback behind the fullback through a designated gosh-danged hole. There is NO REASON why this program shouldn't be able to find 5 fat guys who can move some people out of the way and clear a lane for a back to get through!

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