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  1. #21

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    Since joining the ACC we are:
    9-1 vs. Duke
    4-1 vs. Maryland
    7-4 vs. BC

    We have learned how to beat these teams plenty. It's one year. Let it go...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    I do. Athletics isn't going to do jack to get us into the AAU.
    It's not about "getting us into the AAU"--it's about creating new relationships with schools that we want to be associated with. I say you have to look at it like a court of law--we don't have hard evidence either way, but we have plenty of circumstantial evidence. The circumstantial evidence leads to a certain conclusion--that VT, through administration and athletics--is attempting to strengthen its ties to (or create new ties with) the Big Ten and/or AAU. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt--I have my doubts, of course--but it is enough evidence to start drawing a picture. If VT's new AD comes out of the Big Ten then you've got an extremely strong case for my position (really, my hypothesis).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    It's not about "getting us into the AAU"
    well...

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    On the academic side, Virginia Tech has one goal and one goal only--membership in the AAU. There are 62 AAU members and 13 of them are in the Big Ten conference. There are I think 5 in the ACC--UVA, Pitt, GT, Duke, UNC. I don't doubt at all that there is at least some pressure placed on the athletics department to strengthen ties to the Big Ten and AAU schools as much as is logistically possible.[
    you seem to be claiming that we want to strengthen those ties in order to help us get into the AAU...I'm not sure how else to read what you posted before...and what you're posting now for that matter:

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    --it's about creating new relationships with schools that we want to be associated with. I say you have to look at it like a court of law--we don't have hard evidence either way, but we have plenty of circumstantial evidence. The circumstantial evidence leads to a certain conclusion--that VT, through administration and athletics--is attempting to strengthen its ties to (or create new ties with) the Big Ten and/or AAU. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt--I have my doubts, of course--but it is enough evidence to start drawing a picture. If VT's new AD comes out of the Big Ten then you've got an extremely strong case for my position (really, my hypothesis).
    I have no doubt we'd love to be invited into the AAU (I wouldn't exactly go with "one and only goal" and "desperate to be in," however). Our football opponents aren't going to affect that.

    Do we want to be in the Big Ten? I doubt there's any strong desire, but if there is, I really doubt it comes from the academic side of the house. I know lip service gets paid to academics by everyone in these conference talks, but that's really all it is...conference affiliation is of very little consequence academically.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    well...



    you seem to be claiming that we want to strengthen those ties in order to help us get into the AAU...I'm not sure how else to read what you posted before...and what you're posting now for that matter:



    I have no doubt we'd love to be invited into the AAU (I wouldn't exactly go with "one and only goal" and "desperate to be in," however). Our football opponents aren't going to affect that.

    Do we want to be in the Big Ten? I doubt there's any strong desire, but if there is, I really doubt it comes from the academic side of the house. I know lip service gets paid to academics by everyone in these conference talks, but that's really all it is...conference affiliation is of very little consequence academically.
    My point is, I'm not claiming that football schedules alone are going to get VT into the AAU--of course not. I'm pointing out that Virginia Tech has clearly indicated through its actions that it wants to strengthen its ties to the Big Ten. Football scheduling is one of a thousand combined ways it can do this.

    I'll point out that as TSL has pointed out in its old articles about conference realignment that President Steger's strengthened academic ties to Wake Forest leading up to ACC expansion was definitely helpful in VT ultimately ending up in the ACC. I'll point out that the CIC is an academic consortium only of Big Ten members. And high earning football programs like Alabama contribute millions of dollars each year to academics each year with their excess revenue. It is demonstrably wrong to assert that there are no ties between academics and athletics. There is example after example to disprove this assertion.

    Does this mean there was any strategic thinking in VT's Big Ten schedule? No, it doesn't mean that. But IF there is a VT AD out of the Big Ten then the proof would start to be pretty overwhelming to ignore.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    My point is, I'm not claiming that football schedules alone are going to get VT into the AAU--of course not.
    and I never said you were...clearly that thought is lunacy...but you kept implying that our football scheduling was done at least in part for AAU purposes

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    I'm pointing out that Virginia Tech has clearly indicated through its actions that it wants to strengthen its ties to the Big Ten. Football scheduling is one of a thousand combined ways it can do this.
    all that's clear is that Virginia Tech football wants to play Big Ten opponents. Assuming that those scheduled games are part of some broader plan is just a guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    I'll point out that as TSL has pointed out in its old articles about conference realignment that President Steger's strengthened academic ties to Wake Forest leading up to ACC expansion was definitely helpful in VT ultimately ending up in the ACC.
    well, I'm sure it didn't hurt, but I doubt it was a consideration for the folks who made the decision...I'd be happy to read up on it if you want to provide a link
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    I'll point out that the CIC is an academic consortium only of Big Ten members.
    yes, and the ACC has the ACCAIC

    other conferences do things together academically as well...I'm not convinced any of them is a really big deal

    which is not to say that the CIC is not a collection of fabulous research universities...it is

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    And high earning football programs like Alabama contribute millions of dollars each year to academics each year with their excess revenue. It is demonstrably wrong to assert that there are no ties between academics and athletics. There is example after example to disprove this assertion.
    That's cool...you have some links about what Alabama has done?

    I never said that there "aren't ties" between academics and athletics. What I am saying is that the academic side of the house is not directing the athletic side in hopes of gaining either AAU or Big Ten membership.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    Does this mean there was any strategic thinking in VT's Big Ten schedule? No, it doesn't mean that. But IF there is a VT AD out of the Big Ten then the proof would start to be pretty overwhelming to ignore.
    I guess I'm confused at what you're trying to argue...a few sentences ago VT had clearly indicated that it wants to strengthen ties to the Big Ten and now we don't know if there's any strategic thinking in our scheduling.

  6. #26
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    Are there examples of the B1G schools positively reponding to Tech?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    And it seems most of folks in the BigTen are responding positively to these overtures. If we aren't in the AAU anyhow, having the entire BigTen voting for us would make it a done deal.
    Just curious, because I haven't heard anything (not even from fans). Not long ago, during the beginning of the year, all I heard about was UVa and UNC, with some rumblings of GT and Duke. Something tells me UVa and UNC will still be the main targets for the B1G, as they are the 2 big fish in their respective States.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    and I never said you were...clearly that thought is lunacy...but you kept implying that our football scheduling was done at least in part for AAU purposes


    all that's clear is that Virginia Tech football wants to play Big Ten opponents. Assuming that those scheduled games are part of some broader plan is just a guess.


    well, I'm sure it didn't hurt, but I doubt it was a consideration for the folks who made the decision...I'd be happy to read up on it if you want to provide a link

    yes, and the ACC has the ACCAIC

    other conferences do things together academically as well...I'm not convinced any of them is a really big deal

    which is not to say that the CIC is not a collection of fabulous research universities...it is


    That's cool...you have some links about what Alabama has done?

    I never said that there "aren't ties" between academics and athletics. What I am saying is that the academic side of the house is not directing the athletic side in hopes of gaining either AAU or Big Ten membership.


    I guess I'm confused at what you're trying to argue...a few sentences ago VT had clearly indicated that it wants to strengthen ties to the Big Ten and now we don't know if there's any strategic thinking in our scheduling.
    Geesh. We're discussing the possibility that our schedule has something to do with long-term academic/conference affiliation plans. I don't know what you want me to say--I obviously can't prove my hypothesis one way or the other, hence it being a hypothesis. You're dismissing the possibility that our schedule with the Big Ten has any link whatsoever to strategic thinking and I'm asserting that I think academics/AAU membership and possibly even Big Ten membership has been forcefully considered for the long-term for Virginia Tech and that our President hire and our scheduling seem to indicate that that's the case. I've provided my evidence. I've forcefully asserted--twice--that it is circumstantial evidence and that it's just a hypothesis. I've also asserted twice now that if our AD hire is from the Big Ten then the evidence will become pretty incontrovertible.

    I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to provide. You want links that Alabama's athletic department provides millions of dollars to academics? Ok? Fine. Here's your link.

    Alabama football provided $6.5 million to the academic side. Has nothing to do with my assertion other than there are a myriad of cases where athletics and academics are linked:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmi...ar-absolutely/

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    Geesh. We're discussing the possibility that our schedule has something to do with long-term academic/conference affiliation plans. I don't know what you want me to say--I obviously can't prove my hypothesis one way or the other, hence it being a hypothesis. You're dismissing the possibility that our schedule with the Big Ten has any link whatsoever to strategic thinking and I'm asserting that I think academics/AAU membership and possibly even Big Ten membership has been forcefully considered for the long-term for Virginia Tech and that our President hire and our scheduling seem to indicate that that's the case. I've provided my evidence. I've forcefully asserted--twice--that it is circumstantial evidence and that it's just a hypothesis. I've also asserted twice now that if our AD hire is from the Big Ten then the evidence will become pretty incontrovertible.
    Yes, we are discussing that. If you change your story or bring new ideas into it, I might share my opposing viewpoints...you know, like a message board kind of thing.

    I will admit that this topic is kind of a hot button one for me...It amazes me how much people think athletics influence academic institutions. Having spent significant time in academia, it makes little sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to provide. You want links that Alabama's athletic department provides millions of dollars to academics? Ok? Fine. Here's your link.

    Alabama football provided $6.5 million to the academic side. Has nothing to do with my assertion other than there are a myriad of cases where athletics and academics are linked:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmi...ar-absolutely/
    That's exactly what I was asking for. I honestly had never heard of a program doing such a thing...appreciate it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    Yes, we are discussing that. If you change your story or bring new ideas into it, I might share my opposing viewpoints...you know, like a message board kind of thing.

    I will admit that this topic is kind of a hot button one for me...It amazes me how much people think athletics influence academic institutions. Having spent significant time in academia, it makes little sense to me.


    That's exactly what I was asking for. I honestly had never heard of a program doing such a thing...appreciate it.
    I stated that the scheduling could be one part of a thousand parts of VT establishing relationships in the Big Ten. I'm not asserted that scheduling Purdue = AAU membership. I'm asserting that stating primary university wide goals of AAU membership and improved rankings among research universities is consistent with hiring a guy with a PhD from an AAU university (Berkeley) and who was an interim President of another (Purdue) and scheduling Big Ten football teams, POSSIBLY with the mission of establishing relationships with the Big Ten athletic departments and POSSIBLY angling for a Big Ten invite at the end of the ACC GOR, POSSIBLY so that the university can be part of the CIC and the Big Ten research culture. I would imagine that VT will have to have a pretty good reputation with the Big Ten in order to get an invite over UVa/UNC.

    It's all consistent and it's just a hypothesis. Unless you can disprove it with any evidence then the hypothesis will remain unproven and not disproven until further evidence is available and/or a lot of time has past. Realistically we won't have a definitive answer on my hypothesis for 15 years, although as I said, if the new AD is from the Big Ten then that is a pretty interesting development.
    Last edited by TJ was Broke; Sun Dec 22 2013 at 07:38 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ was Broke View Post
    I stated that the scheduling could be one part of a thousand parts of VT establishing relationships in the Big Ten. I'm not asserted that scheduling Purdue = AAU membership. I'm asserting that stating primary university wide goals of AAU membership and improved rankings among research universities is consistent with hiring a guy with a PhD from an AAU university (Berkeley) and who was an interim President of another (Purdue) and scheduling Big Ten football teams, POSSIBLY with the mission of establishing relationships with the Big Ten athletic departments and POSSIBLY angling for a Big Ten invite at the end of the ACC GOR, POSSIBLY so that the university can be part of the CIC and the Big Ten research culture. I would imagine that VT will have to have a pretty good reputation with the Big Ten in order to get an invite over UVa/UNC.

    It's all consistent and it's just a hypothesis. Unless you can disprove it with any evidence then the hypothesis will remain unproven and not disproven until further evidence is available and/or a lot of time has past. Realistically we won't have a definitive answer on my hypothesis for 15 years, although as I said, if the new AD is from the Big Ten then that is a pretty interesting development.
    Got it. The president part makes perfect sense.

    The "we want to join the Big Ten for academics" part doesn't...not even "POSSIBLY."

    Obviously there's not "proof" either way.

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