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  1. #51
    Pylons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoakie82 View Post
    You also can't fault him for the assistant coaching carrousel. Name one assistant that left just to get away by taking a step down or even a lateral move. There isn't any. Most got a promotion in responsibilities or at the very least a substantial pay increase.
    James Johnson?

    edit:
    maybe also Ryan Odom, Stacey Palmore, Adrian Autry?

    Bill Courtney went to a head job, so that's not lateral. The others all left of other assistant jobs...at Clemson, UNCC, UGa, and Dayton, I think...some of those maybe were "better" jobs, but none strike me as decidedly "upward"
    Last edited by Pylons; Wed Dec 11 2013 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #52
    OrangeHokieFan's Avatar
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    Before his VCU final four run we most certainly could have hired him or someone more qualified than JJ. He's a good coach is is doing his job turning this team around but I'd rather shell out the money and go high profile and win now. Bruce Pearl, Bruce Webber, Frank Martin, were all available when we took JJ. I think we are just spinning our wheels until we see what JJs got next year but I don't think he can elevate the program like a high profile coach
    Quote Originally Posted by Freddyburg Hokie View Post
    There was no chance Shaka Smart was coming to Tech. Zero.



    We'd have had a better shot at him, that's for sure.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylons View Post
    James Johnson?

    edit:
    maybe also Ryan Odom, Stacey Palmore, Adrian Autry?

    Bill Courtney went to a head job, so that's not lateral. The others all left of other assistant jobs...at Clemson, UNCC, UGa, and Dayton, I think...some of those maybe were "better" jobs, but none strike me as decidedly "upward"
    Is it a lateral move when you're getting a pay increase? I'm not privy to all the details and perhaps Johnson and/or others did leave specifically for personality conflicts (that does happen in any profession), but we do know that our assistants were being paid less than assistants at other ACC programs. The big change now is increase our assistant coach salary pool to use Clemson's pool as a baseline (which is still on the lower end for the ACC, I would assume). I don't know whether that was the deciding factor for Johnson or not, but offering him comparable money AFTER he's already accepted another job is a little late.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNUandVT View Post
    Is it a lateral move when you're getting a pay increase? I'm not privy to all the details and perhaps Johnson and/or others did leave specifically for personality conflicts (that does happen in any profession), but we do know that our assistants were being paid less than assistants at other ACC programs. The big change now is increase our assistant coach salary pool to use Clemson's pool as a baseline (which is still on the lower end for the ACC, I would assume). I don't know whether that was the deciding factor for Johnson or not, but offering him comparable money AFTER he's already accepted another job is a little late.
    I dunno...the semantics of "lateral" certainly could be argued.

    But I don't think anyone definitively says "well, yeah, who wouldn't want to leave VT to go be an assistant at Clemson/UNCC/UGa/Dayton."

    Stacey Palmore was at College of Charleston before Tech...clear jump from a mid-major league to a big-time league (we were Big East at that time). Then he goes to an SEC program with no particular bball pedigree.

    Ryan Odom was at American before Tech....again, clear jump...then he goes to UNCC...a decent program in C-USA

    Adrian Autry came to VT from being a HS coach...was DOBO and then promoted to assistant...then left for Dayton...a very good bball pedigree, but still a step back conference-wise (he never made it to Dayton as a position opened at Syracuse)

    there are probably ways you can paint those moves away from VT as better than lateral (either due to more money or becoming associate vs. assistant or something), but none of them really jump out as obvious upgrades.

  5. #55
    Will Stewart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beedubyah View Post
    I would be SHOCKED if both parties didn't have to sign a non-disparagement when he left.
    IIRC, we heard that both sides did just that.
    Always use "Reply With Quote", so everyone knows to whom you're responding.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Stewart View Post
    IIRC, we heard that both sides did just that.
    But I'm willing to bet cold, hard cash that YOU didn't. C'mon, you've heard the stories, give us some juicy inside gossip! ;^)
    No trees were harmed in the making of this post. However, billions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHokieFan View Post
    Before his VCU final four run we most certainly could have hired him or someone more qualified than JJ. He's a good coach is is doing his job turning this team around but I'd rather shell out the money and go high profile and win now. Bruce Pearl, Bruce Webber, Frank Martin, were all available when we took JJ. I think we are just spinning our wheels until we see what JJs got next year but I don't think he can elevate the program like a high profile coach
    None of those coaches would ever come to Blacksburg. Each of those coaches have received pay (and will garner that type of pay again) equal to, or in the ballpark of, what Frank Beamer makes at VT. Now, that raises a couple issues. Could any AD get away with paying a basketball coach the same amount you pay your high-profile football coach at a "football school"? and even if you could theoretically get away with it, could VT even afford it? a bball coach in the millions means assistants in the upper-half of the hundred thousands. So you're actually talking about paying close to $2 Million more than what VT is currently paying.

    Next lies the problem of, "if VT is offering Coach ShakaPearlWeberMarshall ~$1 Million, and (school X with basketball tradition in an environment more conducive to winning) is offering him something similar, he's taking the route that better sets him up for long-term success" (i.e. not VT)

    This means that VT has to outbid the expectations of what the coach thinks he is worth (or what the market suggests). Something VT hasn't exactly been willing to do. VT's best bet is to hire a top assistant and overpay for him a small bit. It's a huge gamble, because the move 1 seat to the left is the toughest one a coach can make, so you never really know how guys will handle it. But if the gamble pays off, you could see relative success in the basketball program again, and then if another under-the-radar guy like Stephen Curry came along and it broke in our favor, you could see a next level success. The problem will always be sustained success though. And that will be more elusive, as the conference (already one of the toughest) gets tougher, and recruiting gets harder.

    FWIW, I've always thought the move should have been to hire Mike Rhodes from VCU. It will be interesting to track the success of the program once he leaves for a bigger job. And it will be interesting to see what Rhodes is like after he moves one seat to the left...

  8. #58
    Bruce Pearl has a show cause with the NCAA. His coaching career is over.

    Martin and Webber would've wanted to be paid MORE then what Seth was paid, and there was no way Weaver was going to do that.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by HokieJamie View Post
    Bruce Pearl has a show cause with the NCAA. His coaching career is over.

    Martin and Webber would've wanted to be paid MORE then what Seth was paid, and there was no way Weaver was going to do that.
    not over by any means...NCAA show-causes typically run for 5 years...unsure of the length of Pearl's without looking it up, but he'll be back in the game for sure...he was/is a good coach

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCHokie34 View Post
    not over by any means...NCAA show-causes typically run for 5 years...unsure of the length of Pearl's without looking it up, but he'll be back in the game for sure...he was/is a good coach
    Pearl's was 3 years I believe...I think it expires next August.

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