Page 1 of 19 123456711 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 190
  1. #1
    Hubman's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 01, 2003
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA (757!!)
    Posts
    8,990

    Sooo....Can Someone Make a Case For NOT Cheating??

    Well, the ACC has provided us two of the most significant cheating scandals in college football over the last five years, and, the culprits sailed on both accounts.......

    There is probably more cheating than we know out there, but when it is as blatant as it was at Miami and UNC, why not just go full speed ahead on doing the wrong thing? The NCAA has proven that money is more important than actual academic standing or amateur athlete status; therefore, if the NCAA is telling you to do what you need to do (minus touching kids), then why don't schools just do it?

    This is a serious question, and save me the "I want to win the right way" responses. College sports do not define me, so I don't feel better or worse about myself when the so-and-so team from VT does this or that.......give me the reason why you, or any other school, should NOT cheat to get ahead in this environment of money over everything?
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

  2. #2
    Edgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 05, 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    49,228
    Sorry, I have nothing.

    It appears cheating does pay when it comes to NCAA athletics. It pays for the school in increased wins, it pays for the players who receive the extra cash, and it pays for the NCAA board members who fatten their nest egg with suitcases full of cash to look the other way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Well, the ACC has provided us two of the most significant cheating scandals in college football over the last five years, and, the culprits sailed on both accounts.......

    There is probably more cheating than we know out there, but when it is as blatant as it was at Miami and UNC, why not just go full speed ahead on doing the wrong thing? The NCAA has proven that money is more important than actual academic standing or amateur athlete status; therefore, if the NCAA is telling you to do what you need to do (minus touching kids), then why don't schools just do it?

    This is a serious question, and save me the "I want to win the right way" responses. College sports do not define me, so I don't feel better or worse about myself when the so-and-so team from VT does this or that.......give me the reason why you, or any other school, should NOT cheat to get ahead in this environment of money over everything?
    "You start a conversation you can't even finish it
    You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything
    When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
    Say something once, why say it again?"
    - David Byrne

  3. #3
    Senior Member vthokiedsp's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 07, 2012
    Location
    St Pete
    Posts
    1,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Well, the ACC has provided us two of the most significant cheating scandals in college football over the last five years, and, the culprits sailed on both accounts.......

    There is probably more cheating than we know out there, but when it is as blatant as it was at Miami and UNC, why not just go full speed ahead on doing the wrong thing? The NCAA has proven that money is more important than actual academic standing or amateur athlete status; therefore, if the NCAA is telling you to do what you need to do (minus touching kids), then why don't schools just do it?

    This is a serious question, and save me the "I want to win the right way" responses. College sports do not define me, so I don't feel better or worse about myself when the so-and-so team from VT does this or that.......give me the reason why you, or any other school, should NOT cheat to get ahead in this environment of money over everything?
    i've been thinking about this a fair amount lately. the system is kind of set up to tempt people to do the wrong thing. for me the biggest argument for doing it the right way is recruiting. when frank beamer is sitting in the living room of a recruit's house and the parent asks about a scandal, what would beamer say? if we were pulling the same stunts as UNC/Miami/etc, would we have landed Kendall Fuller? or other legacy recruits (be it cousins or whatever). At VT, we hear so many recruits that say their parents were thrilled with the "family values" type of feel and if we did things the wrong way, we'd lose that edge. And to be honest, I'm not sure we have the margin to lose a quality recruit or two b/c of a scandal. Now, i guess you could make the argument that we'd replace those losses with players who'd like to play loose with the rules. I don't know. Maybe.

    Anyways, that's just my thought on the matter.
    It's not that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    September 10, 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    2,489
    The only thing I can come up with is it doesn't appear that it makes any difference, it's not like UNC or Miami have significantly won at levels above their paygrade the past decade. Maybe recruits that are influenced by this sort of thing aren't team players and so your team doesn't end off any better? (i know its a stretch)
    I see your army and raise you a Bud Foster.

  5. #5
    Hubman's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 01, 2003
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA (757!!)
    Posts
    8,990
    Quote Originally Posted by VB Hokie 08 View Post
    The only thing I can come up with is it doesn't appear that it makes any difference, it's not like UNC or Miami have significantly won at levels above their paygrade the past decade. Maybe recruits that are influenced by this sort of thing aren't team players and so your team doesn't end off any better? (i know its a stretch)
    Well the UNC example you give is correct. The Miami example is not. Miami won multiple national championships and put a plethora of players in the NFL. This boosted their brand BIG TIME. What does boosting their brand mean? MONEY.......

    At the end of the day, does anyone care that Miami cheated to win this or that? No. Period. Let me repeat that for those that were not listening: The. General. Public. Does. Not. Care. Who. Cheated. Or. Did. Not Cheat. ...... They care about wins, touchdowns, style, and flair......

    And if you do not believe what I just wrote in that last paragraph, ask ESPN.....they have done hour long segments celebrating school like USC, hoping and praying they will have a quick recovery from their transgressions.....
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 17, 2004
    Posts
    5,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Well, the ACC has provided us two of the most significant cheating scandals in college football over the last five years, and, the culprits sailed on both accounts.......

    There is probably more cheating than we know out there, but when it is as blatant as it was at Miami and UNC, why not just go full speed ahead on doing the wrong thing? The NCAA has proven that money is more important than actual academic standing or amateur athlete status; therefore, if the NCAA is telling you to do what you need to do (minus touching kids), then why don't schools just do it?

    This is a serious question, and save me the "I want to win the right way" responses. College sports do not define me, so I don't feel better or worse about myself when the so-and-so team from VT does this or that.......give me the reason why you, or any other school, should NOT cheat to get ahead in this environment of money over everything?
    throwing principle and morality out the window according to your rules of your post...all you need to do is look at two examples: UNC and Miami. UNC was strong what 2 years. Now they are gone. Miami is well...we are going to see what they are this year but their heyday is done. Auburn? Cam is gone and they have new coach etc.

    But all that does not matter. Your question could be applied outside of college football to wall street, etc. Basically, you are saying why not do wrong to get ahead? It sounds like a personal matter for you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Well, the ACC has provided us two of the most significant cheating scandals in college football over the last five years, and, the culprits sailed on both accounts.......

    There is probably more cheating than we know out there, but when it is as blatant as it was at Miami and UNC, why not just go full speed ahead on doing the wrong thing? The NCAA has proven that money is more important than actual academic standing or amateur athlete status; therefore, if the NCAA is telling you to do what you need to do (minus touching kids), then why don't schools just do it?

    This is a serious question, and save me the "I want to win the right way" responses. College sports do not define me, so I don't feel better or worse about myself when the so-and-so team from VT does this or that.......give me the reason why you, or any other school, should NOT cheat to get ahead in this environment of money over everything?
    Because not everyone gets away with it. You're intentionally forgetting what happened to Ohio State and USC. Some of OSUs players sold a few jerseys, and they lose a chance to play for a national championship last year (They definitely would have played in the title game if not for the bowl ban). An aspiring agent bought a house for the Bushes, and USC is in freefall right now (partly due to an awful hiring decision).

    The lesson here is not that cheaters always win in college sports, it's that the NCAA is a capricious, incompetent and possibly corrupt organization that needs to burned down and rebuilt, at least when it comes to revenue sports.

  8. #8
    Hubman's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 01, 2003
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA (757!!)
    Posts
    8,990
    Quote Originally Posted by BeamerBallin View Post
    It sounds like a personal matter for you.
    This isn't about me. It's a question on a message board. However, yes, Wall Street is big business just like college football so the same principles could apply.....
    "Don't give up......Don't ever give up." -- Jimmy V

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 14, 2012
    Posts
    354
    Maybe it's my cynical Hokie paranoia creeping in, but my gut says that if it had been us instead of UNC and Miami doing these things we would be getting Penn State-level sanctions. The NCAA will make an example of someone if they don't think it will hurt the sport too much. In their eyes, a hammered-down VT (or GT - see their ridiculous sanctions) would hurt the sport less than a hammered-down Miami or UNC. Yeah, UNC has never been much in football, but their scandal also encompassed the basketball team, so you can't touch them either.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    May 17, 2004
    Posts
    5,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubman View Post
    Well the UNC example you give is correct. The Miami example is not. Miami won multiple national championships and put a plethora of players in the NFL. This boosted their brand BIG TIME. What does boosting their brand mean? MONEY.......

    At the end of the day, does anyone care that Miami cheated to win this or that? No. Period. Let me repeat that for those that were not listening: The. General. Public. Does. Not. Care. Who. Cheated. Or. Did. Not Cheat. ...... They care about wins, touchdowns, style, and flair......

    And if you do not believe what I just wrote in that last paragraph, ask ESPN.....they have done hour long segments celebrating school like USC, hoping and praying they will have a quick recovery from their transgressions.....

    Dude, your post is "non sequitur" and I will tell you why. You ask a question which involves ethics and then you say remove ethics from the argument so you can arrive at your answer. I doesn't work that way.

    Your discussion raising post at least raises a discussion on a larger matter. In this "world" where no one would deny there is good and evil, lie and truth, etc, everyone has to make decisions regarding that. If people are going to do wrong to get ahead (read money), then they are just proving a point about this world is Satan's until...it is taken back by it's rightful owner God. Until that happens, people have to decide who they want to serve. The root of all evil....is the LOVE of money. If you love money, you will do some wrong things to get it. So, I guess we know where Hubman stands on this issue, now don't we?
    Last edited by BeamerBallin; Tue Oct 22 2013 at 11:25 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •