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  1. #11
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    I like this map. It would be interesting to see what impact on it would be made by 1) UConn (I assume just the rest of that state filled in), 2) Temple (what impact on that hole in the Mid-Atlantic), 3) Tulane (how much of Southern Mississippi and Louisiana), 4) West Virginia (how much more than already there), 5) University of Cincinnati (how much more of Ohio). Then it would be interesting to assess the size of the DMAs of each.

    These would be the questions being asked, I would think.
    i wonder if ND being a full member wouldn't deliver all the gaps in the east coast all by themselves. i'm honestly fine with ND and anyone they want to bring with them. My list in order of preference for ND to work off of...

    1. UConn def fills a gap, but with NYC and Boston already covered, is Hatford that valuable?
    2. Cincy doesn't add much market wise, but solidifies SW Ohio and brings an endowment and research budget
    3. Navy (assuming they want all in, no football only) - national brand plus fils gap in MD. LAX would be nice, i guess
    4. Temple delivers philly (sort of), and you just hope that they spend the new ACC money to grow their programs
    5. Tulane because i like visiting New Orleans
    6. Villanova (see Temple, but with an even lower starting point for football)

    i left Texas off because, well, i'm not sure i'm convinced there is any chance of them coming on board as a full member of the ACC, and even if they did, i would probably fear for the future of the league (as it would then be). then, again, maybe Texas shatters the league back into 2 leagues, one of which is a mid-atlantic regional league with VT in it, which wouldn't be so bad.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    i wonder if ND being a full member wouldn't deliver all the gaps in the east coast all by themselves. i'm honestly fine with ND and anyone they want to bring with them. My list in order of preference for ND to work off of...

    1. UConn def fills a gap, but with NYC and Boston already covered, is Hatford that valuable?
    2. Cincy doesn't add much market wise, but solidifies SW Ohio and brings an endowment and research budget
    3. Navy (assuming they want all in, no football only) - national brand plus fils gap in MD. LAX would be nice, i guess
    4. Temple delivers philly (sort of), and you just hope that they spend the new ACC money to grow their programs
    5. Tulane because i like visiting New Orleans
    6. Villanova (see Temple, but with an even lower starting point for football)

    i left Texas off because, well, i'm not sure i'm convinced there is any chance of them coming on board as a full member of the ACC, and even if they did, i would probably fear for the future of the league (as it would then be). then, again, maybe Texas shatters the league back into 2 leagues, one of which is a mid-atlantic regional league with VT in it, which wouldn't be so bad.
    To me, much depends on whether the "Grand Plan" is to top out at 16 or to go to 20.

    If it is to top out at 16, I'd have a thorough analysis done between Connecticut and Temple in terms of potential impact in each area. Connecticut's solidification of New England and New York City would be analyzed. Connecticut is the better academic institution and bigger and more successful current athletic department. It has a national brand in men's and women's basketball.

    Temple has an athletic department in about the same shape as Georgia Tech did when Georgia Tech joined the ACC. The ACC added Georgia Tech to incorporate Atlanta at the time. It would add Temple to incorporate the Philadelphia area for the same reason. Temple would have to show progress on their development of athletics. I think they are investing pretty heavily in facitilies at the moment especially for football. The analysis would have to size up the Philadelphia DMA and potential for penetration. Temple does not have the national brand that UConn has. Temple is a regional brand in basketball having been in the Atlantic 10.

    If the plan is to go to 20, I'd take both. Then I'd look toward 3 additions potentially with Texas and 2 friends. That's where the discussion we've had the past 2 weeks comes into play.

    The Cincinnati analysis needs to be done too as a third option to UConn and Temple. I lean toward UConn and Temple because we are supposed to be the Atlantic Coast Conference. Cincinnati seems midwest to me. But Louisville would want them included in the analysis, and the ACC should analyse what it could gain in Ohio.

    I've come to the conclusion that Navy may help get Notre Dame easier being outside the ACC than inside the ACC. Notre Dame wants to play in markets all over the country. It is the primary reason that they don't want to join a conference in football. Navy is a school that also has a national brand and will play Notre Dame anywhere Notre Dame wants to play. They just played them in Dublin, Ireland last season. This would help enable Notre Dame to play in markets like Denver, Seattle, Dallas, San Diego, etc. or anywhere. That could not be done if Navy were in the ACC. They would be playing in Annapolis, MD unless the ACC changes the home stadium rules.

    Choices. Choices. That's what makes this fun. At least it doesn't look like the ACC will be losing anyone.
    Last edited by HOO86; Wed Aug 07 2013 at 12:15 AM.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobbler-100 View Post
    To me, if we're taking credit for Chicago because of ND then we might as well fill in MD, Philly, southern NJ, and CT. ND is ND everywhere, especially on the east coast.
    My only thought on that is the analysis as to what Cable Regional Sports Networks have picked up the Raycom ACC package this year. How easy the syndicated package gets on the Regional Sports Networks could be an indicator of how the ACC Networks gets on the Cable Carriers.

    The ACC was just announced on MSG today in New York. It's on Root in Western PA. It's on Comcast Mid Atlantic, MASN, Yes in New York. It's on the New England Sports Network. It's on Time Warner in upstate New York. And it's been on all the traditional ACC area RSNs like Fox Sports Net South, FSN Florida, Sun Sports, etc.

    There is one gaping hole as far as I can tell. I think this remains the case. The gaping hole is Comcast Sports Network Philadephia. That's the network that carries the Phillies. So far, Notre Dame has not had an impact on that one. Now Raycom and CSN Philly could announce that they are picking up 20 ACC games this week, but they are the last area.

  4. #14

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    Adding UConn and Temple just means we play Clemson and FSU even more infrequently. No thanks. The problem for us is that we don't play enough big time opponents. The discussion on this thread about adding Tulane, Cincy, UConn, etc. just makes matters worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    To me, much depends on whether the "Grand Plan" is to top out at 16 or to go to 20.

    If it is to top out at 16, I'd have a thorough analysis done between Connecticut and Temple in terms of potential impact in each area. Connecticut's solidification of New England and New York City would be analyzed. Connecticut is the better academic institution and bigger and more successful current athletic department. It has a national brand in men's and women's basketball.

    Temple has an athletic department in about the same shape as Georgia Tech did when Georgia Tech joined the ACC. The ACC added Georgia Tech to incorporate Atlanta at the time. It would add Temple to incorporate the Philadelphia area for the same reason. Temple would have to show progress on their development of athletics. I think they are investing pretty heavily in facitilies at the moment especially for football. The analysis would have to size up the Philadelphia DMA and potential for penetration. Temple does not have the national brand that UConn has. Temple is a regional brand in basketball having been in the Atlantic 10.

    If the plan is to go to 20, I'd take both. Then I'd look toward 3 additions potentially with Texas and 2 friends. That's where the discussion we've had the past 2 weeks comes into play.

    The Cincinnati analysis needs to be done too as a third option to UConn and Temple. I lean toward UConn and Temple because we are supposed to be the Atlantic Coast Conference. Cincinnati seems midwest to me. But Louisville would want them included in the analysis, and the ACC should analyse what it could gain in Ohio.

    I've come to the conclusion that Navy may help get Notre Dame easier being outside the ACC than inside the ACC. Notre Dame wants to play in markets all over the country. It is the primary reason that they don't want to join a conference in football. Navy is a school that also has a national brand and will play Notre Dame anywhere Notre Dame wants to play. They just played them in Dublin, Ireland last season. This would help enable Notre Dame to play in markets like Denver, Seattle, Dallas, San Diego, etc. or anywhere. That could not be done if Navy were in the ACC. They would be playing in Annapolis, MD unless the ACC changes the home stadium rules.

    Choices. Choices. That's what makes this fun. At least it doesn't look like the ACC will be losing anyone.

  5. #15
    BUGGZY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    Adding UConn and Temple just means we play Clemson and FSU even more infrequently. No thanks. The problem for us is that we don't play enough big time opponents. The discussion on this thread about adding Tulane, Cincy, UConn, etc. just makes matters worse.
    actually , with a 16 team league, it could be better. right now, with 2 divisions of 7 and 8 games, we play FSU once every 6 years. at 16, with 2 static divisions of 8 and a 9 game league schedule, we would play everyone once every 4 years. however, if they rotate divisions using scheduling pods of 4, we would actually play everyone in the other pods at least once every 3 years (possibly more).

    if you go to 20, i think you have to seriously consider 4 divisions of 5 with a league semi-final, but that would require a lot of changes to be approved by the NCAA and other leagues. if that happened, though, we would play every school in the other 3 divisions once every 3 years.

    basically, if you assume getting ND in as a full member is the trigger for any further expansion, and that with ND on board, we would happily go back to 9 league games, any expansion allows us to play everyone else MORE often than we do today. 14 teams in 2 divisions with 8 games is pretty much our worst case scenario.
    "This no more resembles that than something unlike something else resembles that." - Loosely quoting PHNC

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    actually , with a 16 team league, it could be better. right now, with 2 divisions of 7 and 8 games, we play FSU once every 6 years. at 16, with 2 static divisions of 8 and a 9 game league schedule, we would play everyone once every 4 years. however, if they rotate divisions using scheduling pods of 4, we would actually play everyone in the other pods at least once every 3 years (possibly more).

    if you go to 20, i think you have to seriously consider 4 divisions of 5 with a league semi-final, but that would require a lot of changes to be approved by the NCAA and other leagues. if that happened, though, we would play every school in the other 3 divisions once every 3 years.

    basically, if you assume getting ND in as a full member is the trigger for any further expansion, and that with ND on board, we would happily go back to 9 league games, any expansion allows us to play everyone else MORE often than we do today. 14 teams in 2 divisions with 8 games is pretty much our worst case scenario.
    That's right. The 2 divisions of 7 makes playing the other division members in an 8 game schedule much more infrequent than a 4 POD rotation in a 16 member league or a 20 member league. 18 is also a bad number.

    You can get around the NCAA requirement that only 2 divisions by assigning 2 pods each year as a Division, so the divisions would change every year as the pods rotate.

    One of the worst setups to allow seeing the other divisions each year is how we are set up now at 2 divisions of 7 only playing 8 games per year with a designated cross division rival.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    Temple has an athletic department in about the same shape as Georgia Tech did when Georgia Tech joined the ACC...
    Temple? Temple? The same Temple that was kicked out of the Big East?

    Anybody in the ACC office that brings up Temple in an expansion meeting should be fired on the spot. Let's not make the same mistake that the Big East did in thinking that just because a school resides in a particular market, that it delivers that market.
    No trees were harmed in the making of this post. However, billions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

  8. #18
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobbler-100 View Post
    To me, if we're taking credit for Chicago because of ND then we might as well fill in MD, Philly, southern NJ, and CT. ND is ND everywhere, especially on the east coast.
    Notre Dame's flagship station is WLS in Chicago. Notre Dame is 95 miles (1.5 hours) east of downtown Chicago. The University of Illinois is 136 miles south (2 hours) of Chicago. They also have a large alumni base there. Numerous radio stations throughout the state broadcast Notre Dame football while Chicago, Rockford, and Michigan City, IN broadcast Irish hoops too. Notre Dame even hosted Miami at Soldier Field last season. Notre Dame's following in Chicagoland is much greater than Philadelphia, Baltimore, and south Jersey. Notre Dame is one of Chicago's college teams.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddyburg Hokie View Post
    Temple? Temple? The same Temple that was kicked out of the Big East?

    Anybody in the ACC office that brings up Temple in an expansion meeting should be fired on the spot. Let's not make the same mistake that the Big East did in thinking that just because a school resides in a particular market, that it delivers that market.
    +1000. Temple is to conference revenues what crack addicts are to $10 bills.

  10. #20
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Here's Notre Dame's radio network coverage for football. Basketball only covers northern Indiana and northern Illinois (total of 4 radio stations). They also have an affiliate in New York City (Catholic Channel).

    http://www.ispsports.com/radio-netwo...fm?pid=61&type


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