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  1. #11
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamitous View Post
    Very true. In 2004, it was all about a championship game between Miami and FSU. The main point I was trying to make is that everyone seems to think the ACC had all these wonderful options (public or even private) when in reality, there wasn't that much fruit to pick. I think some think the ACC should have added Tech, Notre Dame, Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech.

    To get to 15, I like UConn because they are a winning program in almost all sports (even football has come around quickly if you think about it). And 16 may never happen seeing the ACC is holding their breath for ND. When (or should I say IF) Notre Dame leaves the ACC high and dry, #16 can be one of the Florida schools you mentioned. By that time, ODU might be a power and the ACC can have 3 Virginia schools.
    If you go by the ACC metrics, UConn is the best fit of all the remaining eastern time zone options. If Cincinnati had better undergraduate academics and a larger fan base, they would be there too. Now that Louisville has been added to the ACC, those metrics don't seem to be as important as they used to be. I kind of agree with HOO86 about grabbing the other side of Pennsylvania and taking Temple. They are a basketball school with Louisville-like academics and isn't that what Swofford pretty much focused on while in NYC last Monday? Any way, having just spent 3 days in Philly, you should be an expert on their inclusion.

  2. #12

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    Rutger's IMO was not needed.

  3. #13
    Calamitous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Line Hokie View Post
    If you go by the ACC metrics, UConn is the best fit of all the remaining eastern time zone options. If Cincinnati had better undergraduate academics and a larger fan base, they would be there too. Now that Louisville has been added to the ACC, those metrics don't seem to be as important as they used to be. I kind of agree with HOO86 about grabbing the other side of Pennsylvania and taking Temple. They are a basketball school with Louisville-like academics and isn't that what Swofford pretty much focused on while in NYC last Monday? Any way, having just spent 3 days in Philly, you should be an expert on their inclusion.
    If we're thinking Philly... what about Villanova? 'Nova would make the ACC basketball schools happy. I figure if UConn can successfully turn to FBS in football, maybe 'Nova could too. Although UConn has the support of the State whereas 'Nova might struggle to gain financial support to make it to FBS. Plus, it'd be another Catholic school to appease the greedy Irish and they are a good academic school.

  4. #14
    Edgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFantastic! View Post
    Rutger's IMO was not needed.
    Rutsgers is needed if you use the BTN Television model. There are a lot of cable subscribers in NJ.
    "You start a conversation you can't even finish it
    You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything
    When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
    Say something once, why say it again?"
    - David Byrne

  5. #15

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    Neither Temple nor Villanova bring enough. Philly is an Eagles town and in terms of college football teams, Penn State is decidedly above both of them. If I had to pick between the two, I'd take Villanova. But there are several schools (including UConn and Cincy) that I'd take before either of them.

    And with respect to UCF and USF, I'd stay away from them too. I'm not really into adding teams in states we are already in unless they bring big time football cache within that state or nationally.

    I think the ACC piecemeal, incremental expansion has caused the conference to be less than it could have been. It would have been great to have Rutgers and have held on to Maryland. They should have just did it all at once and gotten into PA, NJ, NY, CT, and MA. And if you want to throw KY, OH, and/or WV there, then fine. It's a shame the conference didn't have a unified vision back in 2003 to do it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamitous View Post
    If we're thinking Philly... what about Villanova? 'Nova would make the ACC basketball schools happy. I figure if UConn can successfully turn to FBS in football, maybe 'Nova could too. Although UConn has the support of the State whereas 'Nova might struggle to gain financial support to make it to FBS. Plus, it'd be another Catholic school to appease the greedy Irish and they are a good academic school.

  6. #16

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    It's the sole major program in the 11th most populous state....

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFantastic! View Post
    Rutger's IMO was not needed.
    It's also a large, highly rated state research university that's an AAU member, with a pretty good football team. Rutgers has its positives, else the B1G wouldn't have scooped them out from under the ACC's clueless nose.

    Private school protectionism got the ACC into this situation and that's why Rutgers isn't an ACC member. Thank you Wake and Duke for shortsighted thinking.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    The ACC apparently expanded based on a need to maintain some unnecessary balance between private and public schools. How did the conference survive for so long with only two private schools?

    Virginia Tech, Pitt and Miami should have been the first three, and Syracuse and Rutgers could have quickly followed once conferences discovered the value of footprint and conference network revenue. At that point, the ACC could have challenged the B1G as a research power, and would have looked a lot better to PSU.

    Many folksy here love to praise 'ninja' Wofford, but let's look at what we really have now: a bunch of Big East castoffs that any major conference could have added at any time; the part of Notre Dame that anybody could have had; no Maryland; and no conference TV network.

    Corporate analysts get paid well for predicting the future and they get fired when they don't. ACC leadership gets praise for being a fast follower. And in saying 'fast', I think I'm being generous.
    The balance was desired to lure ND I think. It's been mentioned a couple of times here. The problem is, the ACC has suffered trmendously the last decade by taking BC and not Pitt or Rutgers first. BC has added zilch and probably cost the ACC money in unsold tickets and travel. And ND aint coming for fball anytime soon. The ACC may not survive until ND's deal is up. FSU, Clemson, VT, etc., are going to be $100 million behind peer fball schools. They just really jacked it up all the way around with this bizarre private school business.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    It's also a large, highly rated state research university that's an AAU member, with a pretty good football team. Rutgers has its positives, else the B1G wouldn't have scooped them out from under the ACC's clueless nose.

    Private school protectionism got the ACC into this situation and that's why Rutgers isn't an ACC member. Thank you Wake and Duke for shortsighted thinking.
    And it's a mid Atlantic school. Heck VT is recruiting there some now.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Line Hokie View Post
    If you go by the ACC metrics, UConn is the best fit of all the remaining eastern time zone options. If Cincinnati had better undergraduate academics and a larger fan base, they would be there too. Now that Louisville has been added to the ACC, those metrics don't seem to be as important as they used to be. I kind of agree with HOO86 about grabbing the other side of Pennsylvania and taking Temple. They are a basketball school with Louisville-like academics and isn't that what Swofford pretty much focused on while in NYC last Monday? Any way, having just spent 3 days in Philly, you should be an expert on their inclusion.
    I'm a little nervous that we left Connecticut on the table for the Big Ten to consider particularly with the ACC strategy of having presence in New York City while the Big Ten wants it too. And I think it is Boston College that was blackballing UConn because they want to be the only New England team. I hope that the ACC doesn't regret not taking them if the Big Ten gets them like the Big XII is regretting with Louisville. I can easily see the Big Ten taking UConn and Kansas and then proclaiming themselves as "the best collection of basketball schools ever assembled". The ACC should not want that.

    UConn is not AAU, but Kansas is AAU. So that will be a turnoff to the Big Ten regarding UConn, but I still worry. I'm somewhat in favor of taking them and locking down that quadrant of the geography for the ACC. Temple and Cincinnati aren't vulnerable to be lost as options because of other Big Ten presence in their states, but Connecticut is.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    The balance was desired to lure ND I think. It's been mentioned a couple of times here. The problem is, the ACC has suffered trmendously the last decade by taking BC and not Pitt or Rutgers first. BC has added zilch and probably cost the ACC money in unsold tickets and travel. And ND aint coming for fball anytime soon. The ACC may not survive until ND's deal is up. FSU, Clemson, VT, etc., are going to be $100 million behind peer fball schools. They just really jacked it up all the way around with this bizarre private school business.
    The BC thing was all driven by Donna Shalala. The ACC wanted Miami and needed 2 other schools to make 12 for a championship game. She wanted Boston College and Syracuse. She got Virginia Tech, then eventually the other two. I wouldn't say that Boston College has brought zilch. Boston College has been in 2 Football Championship Games and 1 Basketball Championship Game since they've been here. I can't say that Virginia's done either. They also played a part in the luring of Notre Dame for the ACC as did Pittsburgh.

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