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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stech View Post
    They all can, but the Big 12 is held toghether by Texas and will fall apart if Texas leaves. That is not the case with the ACC...there is not one school that holds the whole conference toghether.

    PS The populations and academics are in the East. That's why the B1G 10 tried but bascially failed to raid the ACC. That's why ND is aligning with the ACC.
    The B1G 10 did raid the ACC, they failed at destroying it. And the ND stuff has a ton to do with historical cultural issues w/ the B1G. But ND does obviously like the East. They may even reconsider the B1G now that they've moved into NYC and DC areas. Perhaps ND could bring BC with them and work something out.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark425Hokie View Post
    The most important factor for the ACCCG is not where it's played but who plays in it. VT has been in it 5 times and when they played FSU or Clemson (VT-FSU, Jacksonville, 73K; VT-FSU, Charlotte, 72K; VT-Clemson, Charlotte, 74K) the attendence was very good. However, when they played BC twice in Tampa the attendence was poor (53K and 27K). Because Charlotte is closer to many ACC schools it will help the attendence when the teams playing aren't worth watching. However, the number one factor for the ACC to help attendence at the ACCCG and at all of their games is to improve their product.
    Nope, every matchup except FSU vs Miami will draw better in Charlotte. FSU vs. GT may do better in Tampa, but it would be close. If FSU ain't in the game, it will be better off in Charlotte always.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    Nope, every matchup except FSU vs Miami will draw better in Charlotte. FSU vs. GT may do better in Tampa, but it would be close. If FSU ain't in the game, it will be better off in Charlotte always.
    If what you say is true then please explain why the 2006 game in Jacksonville between Wake and GT drew about 63K and the 2012 game in Charlotte between FSU and GT drew roughly the same at 65K.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark425Hokie View Post
    If what you say is true then please explain why the 2006 game in Jacksonville between Wake and GT drew about 63K and the 2012 game in Charlotte between FSU and GT drew roughly the same at 65K.
    If you think there was even remotely close to 63,000 people at that Wake-GT game, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuwaneeHokie820 View Post
    If you think there was even remotely close to 63,000 people at that Wake-GT game, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    The weather on game day for the GT-Wake game was bad and it had an negative effect on the number of people attending the game but the fact remains that the number of tickets sold for that game was nearly the same as the number of tickets sold for the FSU-GT game. As I said in my original post Charlotte may very well be able to sell a few more tickets than the Florida sites for a meaningless game. However, the point I'm making (and that I stated in my original post) is that the overriding factor for determining how many fans attend the ACCCG is not where the game is played but quality of the teams that play in the game. I can assure you that if an ACC team has a shot at the MNC game and they play another highly ranked team, it wouldn't matter if the game was in Charlotte or Florida, it would be well attended.

    Here's my original post: "Because Charlotte is closer to many ACC schools it will help the attendance when the teams playing aren't worth watching. However, the number one factor for the ACC to help attendance at the ACCCG and at all of their games is to improve their product."

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark425Hokie View Post
    The weather on game day for the GT-Wake game was bad and it had an negative effect on the number of people attending the game but the fact remains that the number of tickets sold for that game was nearly the same as the number of tickets sold for the FSU-GT game. As I said in my original post Charlotte may very well be able to sell a few more tickets than the Florida sites for a meaningless game. However, the point I'm making (and that I stated in my original post) is that the overriding factor for determining how many fans attend the ACCCG is not where the game is played but quality of the teams that play in the game. I can assure you that if an ACC team has a shot at the MNC game and they play another highly ranked team, it wouldn't matter if the game was in Charlotte or Florida, it would be well attended.

    Here's my original post: "Because Charlotte is closer to many ACC schools it will help the attendance when the teams playing aren't worth watching. However, the number one factor for the ACC to help attendance at the ACCCG and at all of their games is to improve their product."
    I can't find any pictures, but that game was horribly attended according to written reports. And those official tickets sold/attendance numbers are irrelevant because it is commonly known that there is tremendous variance found in how parties determine them.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    I can't find any pictures, but that game was horribly attended according to written reports. And those official tickets sold/attendance numbers are irrelevant because it is commonly known that there is tremendous variance found in how parties determine them.
    I'd say there were closer to 6,300 people at that Wake/GT game than 63,000. I remember some pretty comical overhead shots of the stadium.

    That said, his overall point is not w/o merit. It's very possible that the quality of the participants may be a bigger factor in attendance (or tickets sold, whatever) than the location of the game. I suspect there is a wide range of relative quality for which the location is the dominant factor. But at the "quality extremes" (a matchup of top 10 teams with at least 1 national title contender or a matchup of barely bowl eligible teams) it may well be true that the location is largely irrelevant.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stech View Post
    Tulane could be replaced by Army if they are willing to pay the stipend, which I am not sure that Army and Navy will be willing to pay the stipend. However, I did hear ten years ago that they would be a part of the new Tier. The person that told me that has been spot on over the last 10 years, but sometimes things change.
    Army, Navy, and Air Force already pay their athletes a stipend -- the same stipend every other cadet and midshipman receives, which is why it doesn't run afoul of the NCAA.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    I can't find any pictures, but that game was horribly attended according to written reports. And those official tickets sold/attendance numbers are irrelevant because it is commonly known that there is tremendous variance found in how parties determine them.
    I agree it was "horribly attended" and here's a summary from Warchant (FSU site) about the attendance for the latest ACCCG held in Charlotte. Do you think Charlotte is the answer to the problem?

    Feb. 20 update
    Through a public records request Warchant.com has obtained Georgia Tech's estimated balance sheet from its participation in the ACC Championship on Dec. 1. The school is projected to take a loss of $375,370. The two schools combined to lose more than $850,000 from playing in Charlotte, N.C.
    While exact ticket sale figures were not provided in the public records request, the Yellow Jackets estimated $210,000 in external ticket sales, about $25,000 more than Florida State, which sold a total of 2,033 tickets. Georgia Tech's pro forma has been attached below.

    Original Story
    Florida State took the trophy home from the 2012 ACC championship game in December.
    It also brought back debt.
    According to the school's income statement from the game, obtained by Warchant.com via public records request, Florida State lost more than $478,000 from its participation in the ACC championship in Charlotte, N.C., on Dec. 1.
    About $440,000 of FSU's loss stems from dismal ticket sales for its matchup against 6-6 Georgia Tech. The league announced that 64,778 tickets were distributed, but Bank of America Stadium never reached half-capacity during FSU's 21-15 win. It was the first time in the game's three years in Charlotte that it wasn't labeled a sellout.
    Each season, the conference gives each division winner 10,000 tickets to sell at four different price points ranging from $40 to $150. According to FSU's ticket reconciliation form, Florida State sold just 2,033 tickets, totaling $185,210 in revenue.
    Florida State Athletic Director Randy Spetman and FSU Assistant Athletic Director for Ticket Sales Ben Zierden declined comment.
    The form shows that Florida State was 100 percent responsible for selling the first 6,000 tickets. The ACC then covered 50 percent of the expense for the first 1,000 unsold tickets after 6,000, 75 percent of the next 1,000 tickets and 100 percent of the final 2,000 unsold tickets.
    All told, the face value of the 10,000 allotted tickets was $774,190. After FSU's $185,210 in revenue on the 2,033 tickets sold, $3,594 in various ticket fees and the ACC's assistance on the final 4,000 unsold tickets ($144,895), FSU was left with a $440,491 loss on tickets. The net loss for the trip was $478,954.20.
    An ACC spokesperson told Warchant.com that ACC Commissioner John Swofford has already initiated internal talks about a plan to assure that no school participating in the league's championship game suffer any financial loss because of an appearance. The spokesperson said the idea would be discussed formally among league members during ACC meetings in April or May. Any measure would have to be approved by the ACC member schools, and if something is approved, the measure could potentially help relieve FSU of the loss it incurred in 2012.
    The ACC gave FSU a combined $475,343 to play in Charlotte; $144,895 in unsold ticket assistance, $170,448 in reimbursed expenses and a standard $160,000 payout given to each team according to the league's bylaws. (Note: A detailed breakdown is below).
    Florida State's 1/12 share in the TV revenue generated from the championship game was not factored into any losses and is considered part of the league's overall television agreement with ESPN. Schools won't have an exact figure on television revenue for the 2012-13 school year until the league's final distribution in June.
    A tough sell
    In the days leading up to the game, league officials and Charlotte Collegiate Football, the local organizing committee for the ACC championship game and the Belk Bowl, attributed sagging ticket sales to Georgia Tech not being named the ACC Coastal representative until Nov. 19, the lack of a marquee matchup and both teams' upcoming bowl games. North Carolina was ineligible to compete in the championship due to NCAA sanctions, and when Miami self-imposed a bowl ban on Nov. 19, that made Georgia Tech the Coastal representative.
    Florida State locked up its Atlantic Division crown with a 41-14 win over Maryland on Nov. 17 but lost handily to rival Florida at home the week prior to the ACC championship.
    "Both were late to qualify, that hurts you; people don't have as long to make their plans, they know they're going to a bowl game a month later. So that short term turnaround, you know, gets in the way," Charlotte Collegiate Football Executive Director Will Webb told Charlotte's News14 Carolina on Nov. 29.
    The secondary market reflected the lack of interest in the FSU-GT matchup, and the access to discounted tickets likely aided FSU's inability to sell at face value. According to SeatGeek, ACC championship game tickets sold in the secondary market for an average of $56.15 each, or about half ($110.82) of the average price for the sold out 2011 ACC championship between Clemson and Virginia Tech.
    Tickets to this year's championship were available for less than $5 on Stubhub.com in the days leading up to the game.
    The ACC spokesperson could not confirm if other ACC schools had lost money with title game appearances at previous venues like Jacksonville or Tampa, but losses seem likely considering the poor attendance and less appealing matchups in some years.
    The Tampa Tribune reported that the 2008 game in Tampa between Boston College and Virginia Tech had an actual attendance of just 27,360 and the two schools combined to sell only 5,000 of their combined 20,000-ticket allotment. The Tampa Sports Authority said the actual attendance for the 2009 game between Georgia Tech and Clemson was 44,897.
    The league did confirm that the league had not received any request for additional reimbursement from a team competing in Charlotte in 2010 - a game between FSU and Virginia Tech - or 2011.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobbler-100 View Post
    I'd say there were closer to 6,300 people at that Wake/GT game than 63,000. I remember some pretty comical overhead shots of the stadium.

    That said, his overall point is not w/o merit. It's very possible that the quality of the participants may be a bigger factor in attendance (or tickets sold, whatever) than the location of the game. I suspect there is a wide range of relative quality for which the location is the dominant factor. But at the "quality extremes" (a matchup of top 10 teams with at least 1 national title contender or a matchup of barely bowl eligible teams) it may well be true that the location is largely irrelevant.
    I think it's fairly clear that most of the ACCCGs would have been better attended in Charlotte than Florida. There's only 2 fanbases that would prefer games in Florida.

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