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  1. #21
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    Interesting perspective. Maryland fans will support their team when they are winning. Ralph Friegen had them winning in the early part of the decade right before VT joined the ACC, and they sold out their allotment to the Orange Bowl and the Peach Bowl the next season. It's also the genesis of their stadium expansion. But when the team faded, the fans faded at a rapid pace. It's happened to UVA some too, but nothing like Maryland. And overall since I've been following the ACC for 35 years, Maryland fans seem much more into basketball. Their complaints about North Carolina bias has to do with the location of the Men's basketball tournament more than anything else. They will not see improvement in the Big Ten on this issue I don't imagine.

    The Penn State comment intrigues me. The Penn State people I know say the same thing. They hate the Big Ten, but they like its money. If the ACC can ever get close, they would be a great fit for the ACC especially with Pitt in the ACC. They could balance the North Carolina bias some with more presence in Pennsylvania. I know Gordon Gee says Penn State just abhors Pitt. I wonder if that was more attributed to Joe Paterno than Penn State generally. Another reason for Penn State to look is spelled out in this article from one of the Notre Dame football message boards that I found. Seems that the Big Ten isn't making friends too much with Notre Dame lately given recent comments. The solution is not for the Big Ten to gobble up the ACC and make the rest of the ACC schools miserable. It's for Penn State to leave the Big Ten and move into a league giving it access.

    http://www.uhnd.com/articles/footbal...ig-ten-choice/
    As for Penn State, Joe Paterno's stubbornness and pride hurt him just as much as it helped him. Paterno was widely loved by alumni and fans but he had his share of enemies. Most Penn Staters hate Pitt. Most don't have anything good to say about their rival to the west. It's much less civil than the UVa-Tech rivalry. For one thing, Paterno really didn't want to play them, mostly for recruiting reasons. I think they're actually playing each other in a few years? According to my friend who played at PSU in the early 1970's, he said Paterno based much of his OOC scheduling on easy wins and recruiting advantages. I asked my friend why Paterno would never play Tech and he simply said Paterno was afraid of losing recruits in Virginia. Paterno felt Tech (from the mid 1990's and on) was too much of a challenge and a loss to the Hokies would mean potentially losing recruits from the Old Dominion. Jim Weaver has tried to schedule Penn State since the day be arrived in Blacksburg.

    Paterno was confident that he could beat UVa and took chances playing the Hoos. Paterno also looked up to UVa as where he wanted Penn State to be academically one day. I'm not knocking your Hoos, I'm just saying what he told me. Paterno also felt the same way about Temple, Navy, and Rutgers. He believed in playing MAC and weaker northeastern teams teams at 100,000+ seat Beaver Stadium. He knew the fans were loyal and would come to watch any team, so why not play weak teams that they could beat?

    The Notre Dame article was interesting. It's funny how Notre Dame is excited to be playing in the ACC because of all the private schools like BC, Duke, Wake, Miami, and Syracuse. ACC fans from public institutions feel differently about most of the private schools when it comes to football. That's why there were so many Tech fans in favor of joining the SEC if the opportunity ever presented itself.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    That's kind of why I found it a little humorous that someone like Jim Delaney would try to compare the enthusiasm level in New Jersey at a place like Rutgers to the enthusiasm at one of his other additions like Nebraska. I don't quite think you'll see the same level there Jim! Earth to Jim!

    As for Boston College, they were requested by Miami in a package. They also were a means to an end in securing Notre Dame for the ACC. Boston College is in a Pro Sports town. And I'm glad John Swofford isn't going to Boston surprised that BC doesn't have the same enthusiasm as Virginia Tech or Florida State.
    Well, they bragged about playing the baseball tourney in Fenway and quickly figured out NOBODY in Boston gave a rats about BC or ACC baseball. I don't think most of these conference and university bigwigs are too very close to earth. I've been saying this OVER and OVER, a vote on TSL over these issues would have yielded better results. The list of miscues Greensboro's made the last ten years is fairly long, from adding BC to giving away Tier three TV rights to Raycom, and TSL posters have called them out at every point along the way. I think the UVA board has probably done the same. They just have no idea what will and will not work well with the fans.

  3. #23

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    BC was huge in bringing Miami & ND to the ACC. That is money in the pocket for anyone that understands how the TV negotiations work. Also, since BC has been in VT's conference we get far more students out of Mass that have high SAT's, GPA's and pay out of state tuition. That helps VT's rankings and that helps us bring in money to the school.

    I do realize that not many BC fans travel to VT, but even that has a benefit since some VT fans get to go to the game that would not otherwise be able to go to a game. I do understand that there are weaknesses to BC, but the people that run things look at more than just one thing. The ACC has an enormous net gain having Miami and ND to help them negotiate with TV and BC like it or not helped the ACC get them.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    Well, they bragged about playing the baseball tourney in Fenway and quickly figured out NOBODY in Boston gave a rats about BC or ACC baseball. I don't think most of these conference and university bigwigs are too very close to earth. I've been saying this OVER and OVER, a vote on TSL over these issues would have yielded better results. The list of miscues Greensboro's made the last ten years is fairly long, from adding BC to giving away Tier three TV rights to Raycom, and TSL posters have called them out at every point along the way. I think the UVA board has probably done the same. They just have no idea what will and will not work well with the fans.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4vt View Post
    Well, they bragged about playing the baseball tourney in Fenway and quickly figured out NOBODY in Boston gave a rats about BC or ACC baseball. I don't think most of these conference and university bigwigs are too very close to earth. I've been saying this OVER and OVER, a vote on TSL over these issues would have yielded better results. The list of miscues Greensboro's made the last ten years is fairly long, from adding BC to giving away Tier three TV rights to Raycom, and TSL posters have called them out at every point along the way. I think the UVA board has probably done the same. They just have no idea what will and will not work well with the fans.
    The Fenway Park thing was a back out by the ACC. It was scheduled, and the ACC decided to back out of if because of the recession and the travel cost for all the teams in the conference to Boston. I hope it can be rescheduled some day.

    There have been miscues for sure by the ACC, but there have been things done right too. At least the ACC granted its Tier 3 rights to one place. The poor SEC granted them to about a dozen places depending on which team, and they have spent a fortune and a whole lot more time buying them back.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Line Hokie View Post
    As for Penn State, Joe Paterno's stubbornness and pride hurt him just as much as it helped him. Paterno was widely loved by alumni and fans but he had his share of enemies. Most Penn Staters hate Pitt. Most don't have anything good to say about their rival to the west. It's much less civil than the UVa-Tech rivalry. For one thing, Paterno really didn't want to play them, mostly for recruiting reasons. I think they're actually playing each other in a few years? According to my friend who played at PSU in the early 1970's, he said Paterno based much of his OOC scheduling on easy wins and recruiting advantages. I asked my friend why Paterno would never play Tech and he simply said Paterno was afraid of losing recruits in Virginia. Paterno felt Tech (from the mid 1990's and on) was too much of a challenge and a loss to the Hokies would mean potentially losing recruits from the Old Dominion. Jim Weaver has tried to schedule Penn State since the day be arrived in Blacksburg.

    Paterno was confident that he could beat UVa and took chances playing the Hoos. Paterno also looked up to UVa as where he wanted Penn State to be academically one day. I'm not knocking your Hoos, I'm just saying what he told me. Paterno also felt the same way about Temple, Navy, and Rutgers. He believed in playing MAC and weaker northeastern teams teams at 100,000+ seat Beaver Stadium. He knew the fans were loyal and would come to watch any team, so why not play weak teams that they could beat?

    The Notre Dame article was interesting. It's funny how Notre Dame is excited to be playing in the ACC because of all the private schools like BC, Duke, Wake, Miami, and Syracuse. ACC fans from public institutions feel differently about most of the private schools when it comes to football. That's why there were so many Tech fans in favor of joining the SEC if the opportunity ever presented itself.
    That's interesting about Paterno. I always thought he played UVA because of George Welsh. I do know that Welsh beat Paterno out on some recruits, and it made him furious. Antoine Womack was one that comes to mind. Since playing UVA, Penn State is 2-3 vs UVA. The last Penn State loss was last season, and it was Bill O'Brien rather than Joe Paterno. I lost a lot of respect for Joe Paterno after the loss he had when Matt Schaub was the UVA QB. He said some really derogatory things about Matt who is a Pennsylvania native. He said he missed the days of 140 scholarships because Matt would have made a great player on his practice squad. I didn't think it was called for at the time. Matt has done relatively well in the NFL. Anyway, it's a new day there with Bill O'Brien. Hopefully some of this pettiness will clean up. The school can use a little bit of putting Joe behind them for a lot of reasons.

    The ACC is a unique mix if private and public schools, and it is the character of the league. While we have the private schools, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisville, and Pitt are all public and offer that perspective. The private schools also give the ACC the high academic focus. I like the mix because the public schools we do have are the higher public academic schools. Louisville has some work to do, but the rest are.
    Last edited by HOO86; Sat Jun 08 2013 at 11:01 AM.

  6. #26
    Edgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    I lost a lot of respect for Joe Paterno after the loss he had when Matt Schaub was the UVA QB. He said some really derogatory things about Matt who is a Pennsylvania native. He said he missed the days of 140 scholarships because Matt would have made a great player on his practice squad. I didn't think it was called for at the time.
    Doubt he screamed half as much as when Kevin Jones decided to sign with Virginia Tech...lol
    "You start a conversation you can't even finish it
    You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything
    When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
    Say something once, why say it again?"
    - David Byrne

  7. #27
    I do not believe Fredo had anything to do with bringing ND to the ACC for all sports except football and ice hockey. In other words, if Fredo wasn't in the ACC this past year, it would not have stopped ND from coming to the ACC.

    I agree that Miami used Fredo as a stalking horse in it's exploration of moving to the ACC. However, by the time the votes were taken and the invites made, Miami had burnt way too many bridges in the BE to be able to stay there, whether or not Fredo was every invited.

    If you remember, only Tech and Miami were voted in in June. Fredo's invite was vetoed by NCSU. Well Tech had accepted before the final vote was cast. However, the dwarf of Coral Gables threw a semi hissy, stamped her feet a little, and said Miami would have to thank about accepting since Fredo was rejected. Well, Miami pouted over the weekend, and then accepted. Fredo wasn't invited in until July, which is why they had to spend a 2nd lame duck year in the BE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stech View Post
    BC was huge in bringing Miami & ND to the ACC. That is money in the pocket for anyone that understands how the TV negotiations work. Also, since BC has been in VT's conference we get far more students out of Mass that have high SAT's, GPA's and pay out of state tuition. That helps VT's rankings and that helps us bring in money to the school.

    I do realize that not many BC fans travel to VT, but even that has a benefit since some VT fans get to go to the game that would not otherwise be able to go to a game. I do understand that there are weaknesses to BC, but the people that run things look at more than just one thing. The ACC has an enormous net gain having Miami and ND to help them negotiate with TV and BC like it or not helped the ACC get them.

  8. #28
    The ACC granted them to one place, espn, with the proviso that any unwanted games by espn had to be resold to Raycom in Charlotte, who has already re-resold some of those games to Fox regional sports.

    From what I've read so far, the ACC TV rights are just as screwed up as the SEC's were.

    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    The Fenway Park thing was a back out by the ACC. It was scheduled, and the ACC decided to back out of if because of the recession and the travel cost for all the teams in the conference to Boston. I hope it can be rescheduled some day.

    There have been miscues for sure by the ACC, but there have been things done right too. At least the ACC granted its Tier 3 rights to one place. The poor SEC granted them to about a dozen places depending on which team, and they have spent a fortune and a whole lot more time buying them back.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlee Hokie View Post
    The ACC granted them to one place, espn, with the proviso that any unwanted games by espn had to be resold to Raycom in Charlotte, who has already re-resold some of those games to Fox regional sports.

    From what I've read so far, the ACC TV rights are just as screwed up as the SEC's were.
    The SEC's were in about 4 different places, and they cost the SEC about $15 million per year that they were granted to get them back. Here's an article about it:

    http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/20...tv-rights.html

    The ACC's are with Raycom and FOX as you state. They will cost some money to buy them back. Or maybe the ACC can incorporate Raycom into the Network somehow and only buy back the Fox part. Maybe the ACC can buy Raycom Sports, and leave the TV stations that Raycom owns with Raycom proper. The ACC isn't dealing with as many entities, so theoretically it should be easier.

  10. #30
    Old Line Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOO86 View Post
    That's interesting about Paterno. I always thought he played UVA because of George Welsh. I do know that Welsh beat Paterno out on some recruits, and it made him furious. Antoine Womack was one that comes to mind. Since playing UVA, Penn State is 2-3 vs UVA. The last Penn State loss was last season, and it was Bill O'Brien rather than Joe Paterno. I lost a lot of respect for Joe Paterno after the loss he had when Matt Schaub was the UVA QB. He said some really derogatory things about Matt who is a Pennsylvania native. He said he missed the days of 140 scholarships because Matt would have made a great player on his practice squad. I didn't think it was called for at the time. Matt has done relatively well in the NFL. Anyway, it's a new day there with Bill O'Brien. Hopefully some of this pettiness will clean up. The school can use a little bit of putting Joe behind them for a lot of reasons.

    The ACC is a unique mix if private and public schools, and it is the character of the league. While we have the private schools, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisville, and Pitt are all public and offer that perspective. The private schools also give the ACC the high academic focus. I like the mix because the public schools we do have are the higher public academic schools. Louisville has some work to do, but the rest are.
    Paterno could be a big baby at times and he sure didn't believe in political correctness (which at times I respected him for and at other times I just shook my head). Penn State's arrogance finally caught up with them in 2011. They should change the name of Happy Valley to Humble Valley.

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