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  1. #11

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    I like the idea of keeping the old guard together. it would be a welcome pro-tradition move in an age when tradition seems to be dismissed. And as long as Clemson and FSU are in separate divisions, there should be enough balance to justify the move.

    BTW, I consider "original" to mean "before I was born."

    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    i don't hate it...(but it's technically original 5 + uva + GT)

    Old / New
    unc - cuse
    dook - Miami
    ncsu - l'ville
    wake - BC
    Clemson - FSU
    uva - VT
    GT - Pitt

  2. #12

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    With the emphasis we try to put on recruiting NC, we don't want to lose those games there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Jessup View Post
    If Clemson is our permanent crossover, that schedule would be equal to the one we have now. It would actually be tougher. We would just lose a couple games in NC. But I don't think they would protect anything other than Miami-FSU and UVA-UNC in this scenario.

    Proposed - Current
    BC - BC
    UVA - UVA
    Miami - Miami
    Pitt - Pitt
    Louisville - UNC
    Syracuse - Duke
    Clemson - GT

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hokie CPA View Post
    Atlantic Coastal
    Florida State Miami
    Georgia Tech Virginia Tech
    Clemson Louisville
    Duke Boston College
    Wake Forest Syracuse
    North Carolina Virginia
    NC State Pittsburgh
    That's pretty much my suggestion, save for switching the cross-division rivals for BC and Syracuse. I was thinking Duke/Syracuse as cross-division rivals, but admittedly I was only really thinking about basketball at the time. =^)
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    FSU doesn't play GT every year now...
    And this is a big issue for both FSU and GT. If there's a divisional realignment, you'll most likely see this rivalry renewed.

    Quote Originally Posted by BUGGZY View Post
    if you're going to put Miami in the North, just keep Coastal / Atlantic and mix the teams up more evenly like they are today.
    So, you're proposing balancing the divisions on nothing other than the current strength of the teams? That's an exercise that's trying to set a moving target in stone. A North/South divisional alignment, with Miami in the North, does balance out the divisions roughly, but more importantly, has a divisional alignment that still makes sense once the relative strengths of the teams change.

    There's a reason why the B1G is moving to a geographical alignment, and the other conferences have always been that way. It divides the teams based on something that will never change for each school--their location--not something that caters to the "flavor of the year" team.
    Last edited by Freddyburg Hokie; Tue Apr 30 2013 at 04:56 PM.
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  5. #15

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    First, UVa-UNC should be preserved. It is the oldest rivalry in the South. Wake and Clemson? No. UVa and UNC? Yes.

    And in the first arrangement that you have, all the better fan bases are in the same division: FSU, Clemson, VT, NCState and maybe Louisville. I'd love it from a VT scheduling standpoint, but probably not best for the conference.
    Quote Originally Posted by VTHokie2000 View Post
    As long as schools want to hold onto preserving their historic "rivalries" (i.e. UNC-UVA), then very few schools will want to go along it. The best the ACC could is probably keep the zipper model and just make a few minor changes to it.

    Atlantic
    BC
    Louisville
    VT
    Wake
    NC State
    Clemson
    FSU

    Coastal
    Syracuse
    Pitt
    UVA
    Duke
    UNC
    GT
    Miami

    People have to keep in mind that divisions are only a requirement for football so a conference can hold a conference championship game. For the other sports, a conference can have no divisions and use whatever scheduling format (i.e. pods). If the ACC ever did want to go with a North-South alignment, then Notre Dame will have to become a full member and the conference would have to find a 16th school that is located in the "north."

    North
    BC
    Syracuse
    Pitt
    Notre Dame
    VT
    UVA
    Louisville
    16th school (i.e. UConn or Cincy)

    South
    Wake
    Duke
    UNC
    NC State
    Clemson
    GT
    FSU
    Miami

    Now if Notre Dame does not want to join as a full member, then the ACC could decide to add 2 football-only members (i.e. Army and Navy). By doing that it would keep the Commander-in-Chief Trophy in play for both schools (1 game against Air Force), Navy could continue to play Notre Dame since it would have either 3 or 4 OOC spots to fill, and the ACC could once again have a school in MD (if that matters). If the conference went to 16 teams then there couldn't be a protective cross-divisional game. Instead, it would have to go with either 1 or 2 rotating cross-divisional games depending on if the conference schedule is 8 or 9 games.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    First, UVa-UNC should be preserved. It is the oldest rivalry in the South. Wake and Clemson? No. UVa and UNC? Yes.

    And in the first arrangement that you have, all the better fan bases are in the same division: FSU, Clemson, VT, NCState and maybe Louisville. I'd love it from a VT scheduling standpoint, but probably not best for the conference.
    Here are all the rivalries (I can think of off the top of my head) that the ACC would have to decide which should or should not be preserved.

    UNC-UVA
    Duke-UNC*
    UNC-NC State
    Duke-Wake
    Wake-NC State
    Wake-UNC
    Duke-NC State
    UVA-VT*
    VT-Miami
    Pitt-Syracuse
    Syracuse-BC
    Miami-BC
    Miami-Syracuse
    Miami-FSU
    GT-Clemson
    Clemson-NC State*
    GT-FSU
    UVA-FSU*

    * Trophy Game

    I am pretty sure I missed a few, but I think I got majority of them. Also, I am not including Clemson-FSU (for the moment) because it is my understanding that the rivalry did not really develop until recently when there was a Bowden as the head coach.
    Last edited by VTHokie2000; Tue Apr 30 2013 at 05:45 PM.

  7. #17
    GusDaMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    First, UVa-UNC should be preserved. It is the oldest rivalry in the South. Wake and Clemson? No. UVa and UNC? Yes.

    And in the first arrangement that you have, all the better fan bases are in the same division: FSU, Clemson, VT, NCState and maybe Louisville. I'd love it from a VT scheduling standpoint, but probably not best for the conference.
    I would argue that it IS best for the conference to have all your "best" teams/fanbases in the same division, because it means more marquee matchups that TV wants to show. ESPN would just choose to show games from the division with the stronger fanbases all the time, and the other division would mostly get regional play.

    for example (disregarding maintaining any rivalries or anything for the moment), an ideal ACC division from a television standpoint would probably contain Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, UNC, NCSU, and probably either Pitt or Louisville. The TV execs would be ecstatic to be able to choose games involving those teams each week. The "crappier games" (involving BC, Syracuse, GT, uva, wake, dook) would simply be relegated to ESPN3, ACCN, etc. What ESPN wants to avoid is "wasting" an FSU game against dook when they could instead be showing an FSU game against Miami. Put all the biggest media draws in a single division, and you maximize the chance of having at least 1-3 compelling matchups each week.

  8. #18
    GusDaMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTHokie2000 View Post
    Here are all the rivalries (I can think of off the top of my head) that the ACC would have to decide which should or should not be preserved.

    ....
    UVA-FSU*

    * Trophy Game
    UVA and FSU play for a trophy?

  9. #19

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    It could also make for a crappy ACCCG
    Quote Originally Posted by GusDaMan View Post
    I would argue that it IS best for the conference to have all your "best" teams/fanbases in the same division, because it means more marquee matchups that TV wants to show. ESPN would just choose to show games from the division with the stronger fanbases all the time, and the other division would mostly get regional play.

    for example (disregarding maintaining any rivalries or anything for the moment), an ideal ACC division from a television standpoint would probably contain Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, UNC, NCSU, and probably either Pitt or Louisville. The TV execs would be ecstatic to be able to choose games involving those teams each week. The "crappier games" (involving BC, Syracuse, GT, uva, wake, dook) would simply be relegated to ESPN3, ACCN, etc. What ESPN wants to avoid is "wasting" an FSU game against dook when they could instead be showing an FSU game against Miami. Put all the biggest media draws in a single division, and you maximize the chance of having at least 1-3 compelling matchups each week.

  10. #20
    GusDaMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    It could also make for a crappy ACCCG
    every conference has dealt with the occasional (or even not so occasional) mismatches in their champ games. Not to mention, the so-called "balance" that we have right now in the ACC has led to such compelling ACCCgs as VT/BC (twice), and wake/GT.

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