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  1. #11

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    Loyalty to UVa is a minor consideration, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    I'm an SECphile and would love that too. But once we did what we did to get into the ACC, we can't do anything that would weaken UVa's strategic position (like leave the ACC). I understand and accept it, but it still pisses me off.

    I feel ZERO obligation to the ACC, accept for what UVa did to get us in...I guess we made our proverbial bed...
    UVa was a member of the ACC. The ACC essentially destroyed the Big East as a real conference. It's a hard thing for me to feel any gratitude to a school that was part of the machine that wrecked our conference.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon Baboon View Post
    I'm convinced that UNC and UVa will be in the same conference. This might be SEC, B1G or ACC. But I think they pair in any deal. UNC has a lot of barging power. They might be able to get the B1G or the SEC to take UVa AND Duke.

    So I generally dismiss any rumor out there that says VT and UNC to the SEC I unless they want to talk about the SEC going to 18 or more.

    ANd I think the SEC would take either UVa or VT, I don't think they have a big consensus down there about which school from the Commonwealth they should take.
    Isn't this point consistent with mine. (1) If UNC and UVa are tandem and go SEC. We get hosed. I'm not entirely sure that UVA is preferred to Duke by Heels. (2) You also seem to have some doubts that the SEC wants to go beyond 16 - which I also agree. If so, doesn't that open the possibility of us getting squeezed out?

    One more point: If the SEC is somewhat indifferent between us and UVa, might they want to lesser team, since they want to recruit 757?

    The idea that the administration couldn't foresee this is pretty laughable? My point is that we could have been guaranteed a spot in the best conference. Now, I can construct some somewhat probable scenarios where we get hosed. How is that a good trade? How is that a sensible fiduciary effort by the administrators? How difficult was it to fathom that the SEC might have a $15 million + plus contract advantage over the ACC? How sensible is it that a conference will hold together in the face of such a disparity?

    These facts haven't changed much and were foreseeable.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDVick View Post
    Isn't this point consistent with mine. (1) If UNC and UVa are tandem and go SEC. We get hosed. I'm not entirely sure that UVA is preferred to Duke by Heels. (2) You also seem to have some doubts that the SEC wants to go beyond 16 - which I also agree. If so, doesn't that open the possibility of us getting squeezed out?

    One more point: If the SEC is somewhat indifferent between us and UVa, might they want to lesser team, since they want to recruit 757?

    The idea that the administration couldn't foresee this is pretty laughable? My point is that we could have been guaranteed a spot in the best conference. Now, I can construct some somewhat probable scenarios where we get hosed. How is that a good trade? How is that a sensible fiduciary effort by the administrators? How difficult was it to fathom that the SEC might have a $15 million + plus contract advantage over the ACC? How sensible is it that a conference will hold together in the face of such a disparity?

    These facts haven't changed much and were foreseeable.
    We are not going to get "left out" if ACC starts to crumble, SEC is the most likely home if ACC goes down the tubes and we are well positioned with the SEC, better than you think and better than some of the schools you mention to the east and southeast of VT

  4. #14

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    There is, however, one major factor in favor of the SEC....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiestud View Post
    Oh brother! Where to begin?

    First of all, UNC to the SEC and UVA to the Big 10 does not make "strategic sense" for either one of those two schools. What makes strategic sense is staying right where they are. The ACC is in a lot stronger position than many, if not most, realize.

    VT has good reasons for wanting to stay in the ACC. Very good reasons. But if it looks like the league isn't going to survive as a major football conference, then VT will do what is best for VT and I can assure you that talks have taken places between VT and the SEC in that regard. We will not be stuck in a second-tier conference, no matter what happens. So take a Midol and relax.
    The SEC is essentially the zero risk option. VT as a member of the SEC can draft its business and athletic plans with very few variables.

    The ACC, which just lost a charter member, and had a senior official from its #1 football member pining for another conference, be it the B1G or the SEC, is the high risk option.

    And as far as I'm concerned, the B12 is a terrible option. If we end up in the B12 because the SEC and B1G grab four ACC schools not named 'VT', we'll be living proof a very old business adage: the 2nd best option with little risk is always preferable to the #1 option with high risk.

  5. #15

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    You seem to think the the administration can make this decision unilaterally. This is not the case. Once we used the courts and the legislature to get into the ACC, we are bound to them to a large extent. Live by the sword--die by the sword, if you will. We aren't going anywhere until UVa gets theirs. Our singular departure would leave UVa in a damaged ACC--that is simply not happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by TDVick View Post
    Isn't this point consistent with mine. (1) If UNC and UVa are tandem and go SEC. We get hosed. I'm not entirely sure that UVA is preferred to Duke by Heels. (2) You also seem to have some doubts that the SEC wants to go beyond 16 - which I also agree. If so, doesn't that open the possibility of us getting squeezed out?

    One more point: If the SEC is somewhat indifferent between us and UVa, might they want to lesser team, since they want to recruit 757?

    The idea that the administration couldn't foresee this is pretty laughable? My point is that we could have been guaranteed a spot in the best conference. Now, I can construct some somewhat probable scenarios where we get hosed. How is that a good trade? How is that a sensible fiduciary effort by the administrators? How difficult was it to fathom that the SEC might have a $15 million + plus contract advantage over the ACC? How sensible is it that a conference will hold together in the face of such a disparity?

    These facts haven't changed much and were foreseeable.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hokie83 View Post
    We are not going to get "left out" if ACC starts to crumble, SEC is the most likely home if ACC goes down the tubes and we are well positioned with the SEC, better than you think and better than some of the schools you mention to the east and southeast of VT
    Good to hear. I suspect there is some kind of "soft-landing" arrangement between UVA and VT. I happen to think the writing on the wall has been pretty clear for a long time. I think the ACC eventually unravels. I also don't have very much faith in Weaver. He chose a very inconvenient time to can Seth. Moreover, when he did, I said to myself, "Well, he wouldn't be canning Seth unless he was confident he could get a proven replacement!" Turns out he was completely winging it. Had he waited until this year he could've gotten Tubby or Ben Howland.

    He's a good financial manager, but has made some really TERRIBLE strategic bargaining errors (1) standoff with Beamer (2) entire administration made idiotic comments prior to ACC entry and handled the Big East demise poorly (3) I don't think the administration demonstrated any particular competence during that episode (4) Seth firing/replacement hire was haphazard and clumsily handled.

    Not going SEC in lieu of Mizzou fits a common theme. My presumption of competence by these guys hasn't always been vindicated.

  7. #17

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    October 14, 2003
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    I agree from a VT standpoint. But from a political standpoint, I don't think we are at liberty to act without regard to UVa.
    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    UVa was a member of the ACC. The ACC essentially destroyed the Big East as a real conference. It's a hard thing for me to feel any gratitude to a school that was part of the machine that wrecked our conference.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lawhokie View Post
    The SEC is essentially the zero risk option. VT as a member of the SEC can draft its business and athletic plans with very few variables.

    The ACC, which just lost a charter member, and had a senior official from its #1 football member pining for another conference, be it the B1G or the SEC, is the high risk option.

    And as far as I'm concerned, the B12 is a terrible option. If we end up in the B12 because the SEC and B1G grab four ACC schools not named 'VT', we'll be living proof a very old business adage: the 2nd best option with little risk is always preferable to the #1 option with high risk.
    Exactly. This just looks like a really bad trade. Hopefully, the eventual outcome doesn't change. Maybe the administration had no choice and the governor wouldn't let us bail. I have no knowledge of that but wouldn't be surprised if true.

  9. #19

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    December 01, 2002
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    1,203

    What's This? A Cogent Comment?

    Spot on, Baboon.

    Will the SEC expand to 16 teams? I think so.

    Would the SEC accept NC State, UNC, UVa or VT? I think so.

    Would the SEC accept Duke as a package deal with UNC? I don't think so, but could be wrong.

    Anyone who has read my posts over the past several years knows that I'd love to have VT in the SEC. But go to Tigerdroppings.com and see what LSU fans have to say about UVa or VT joining the SEC. I was surprised by how many would prefer UVa.

    Here is the deal from my perspective. I don't see VT in the B1G - ever. I'd be stunned if it happened. So if the ACC has some trouble in the future the choice for VT will be the BIG XII or SEC, assuming an invitation would be forthcoming from one of those two and I think it would.

    It is too bad that VT spent so much political capital to join the ACC, but under the circumstances I can understand why and would have done the exact same thing had it been my decision to make. The blowback of that decision is that UVa gets to make the first move regarding ACC membership. Until and unless that happens VT isn't going anywhere.

    http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p...o-the-SEC.aspx
    Last edited by LSU Tiger; Thu Apr 04 2013 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Edited to Add Link

  10. #20

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    I'm more bullish on VT getting into the B1G than you. But if you are right...

    and VT has come to the belief that they can't get into the B1G (and knowing that UVa can get into both), then we should do whatever it takes right now to get into the SEC. Politics and sensitivities be damned.

    To me, the BigXII is not a viable option. I consider it a step down.

    Speaking of politics, if the state legislature doesn't think we can get into the B1G, they might insist that UVa go there, if it means VT to the SEC, just so we don't have to go to the BigXII. It is much better for the commonwealth to have ONE team in the B1G than NO teams in the B1G.



    Quote Originally Posted by LSU Tiger View Post
    Spot on, Baboon.

    Will the SEC expand to 16 teams? I think so.

    Would the SEC accept NC State, UNC, UVa or VT? I think so.

    Would the SEC accept Duke as a package deal with UNC? I don't think so, but could be wrong.

    Anyone who has read my posts over the past several years knows that I'd love to have VT in the SEC. But go to Tigerdroppings.com and see what LSU fans have to say about UVa or VT joining the SEC. I was surprised by how many would prefer UVa.

    Here is the deal from my perspective. I don't see VT in the B1G - ever. I'd be stunned if it happened. So if the ACC has some trouble in the future the choice for VT will be the BIG XII or SEC, assuming an invitation would be forthcoming from one of those two and I think it would.

    It is too bad that VT spent so much political capital to join the ACC, but under the circumstances I can understand why and would have done the exact same thing had it been my decision to make. The blowback of that decision is that UVa gets to make the first move regarding ACC membership. Until and unless that happens VT isn't going anywhere.

    http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p...o-the-SEC.aspx
    Last edited by Maroon Baboon; Thu Apr 04 2013 at 10:00 PM.

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